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What have others done in this situation?

What have others done in this situation?

My client has placed funds with a Financial Adviser who has acquired investments, collected income, issued a consolidated tax certificate etc. The FA has also provided details of disposlas of listed investments in a neat schedule that could easily be attached as a pdf to the tax return. The only problem is that the schedule doesn't show the acquisition dates of the investments, something that I believe HMRC requires.

There have been 22 disposals (total proceeds £35,000) with 19 gains totalling £1,600 but 3 losses totalling £200. Disclosure is required by HMRC due to the incidence of losses.

My client is reluctant to pay me to enter 22 transactions that are of no significance to his overall tax position, and I don't blame him.

The only idea I have is to not claim the losses, with the idea that the gains themselves are not required to be disclosed (below the disclosure limits on Page TRG5 of the Tax Return Guide). Does this sound a sensible approach or is there something I am missing please?


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07th Sep 2011 17:14

Net gain is £1400

Therefore nothing to report presumably.

Below all limits and no loss to bother claiming for carry forward.

Are you happy the FA report calculates the gains correctly. You will need to keep a record in case of future disposals realising gains.


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By Bluffer
to petersaxton
07th Sep 2011 17:41

Net gain £1,400

Thanks valentino.

I was under the impression that the incidence of losses to be set against gains of the same year triggers a reporting requirement (even if the gross gain and net gain is less than £10,100). Am I wrong on this?

I suppose what I am asking is "Is it alright to ignore the 3 loss-making disposals, therebye leaving 19 gains with nothing to report, or is it compulsary to offset the losses in-year, therebye requiring reporting?"


Your point about the FA calculating correctly is well made and I am talking to the client about increased fees caused by me having to check in future years.

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to cbbcbb
12th Sep 2011 11:35

gross gain below £10,100 - no problem

My reading of the rules (from TRG5) has always been that if:-

1. Total disposal proceeds are below £40,400

2. Chargeable Gains before deduction of any losses are less than £10,100

3. No elections have been made in arriving at 2 and

3. You don't want to make a claim for losses to be carried forward

then there is no need to report anything.

The fact that you have made some losses is irrelevant unless they have either been the cause of your otherwise excess gross gains dropping below £10,100 or they have exceeded your gains altogether and you wish to claim the excess to be carried forward.

I'd be a bit concerned that the FA is "churning", given so many disposals for such small proceeds!



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By Bluffer
to wilcoskip
13th Sep 2011 12:31

Gross gain below £10,100 - no problem

Thank you Susanna.

You've put my mind at ease about my idea of not claiming the 3 losses.

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07th Sep 2011 17:46

What software do you use?

Iris allows you to enter them as one figure, via ticking the brokers schedule box. It then grades out the date of acquisition box and just asks you how many shares were sold.

You can then effectively make two entries, one for the gains and one for the losses.

The date of purchase doesn't need to be included on the SAR anyway

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By Bluffer
to anders
08th Sep 2011 08:21



I use PTP which doesn't seem to allow the entering of a total, only separate disposals.

Thanks for the point about date of purchase; I realised that it isn't shown on the return itself, but I thought it was a requirement on the obligatory attached computation. From what you say though it seems that you, via Iris, manage not to show purchase dates, and you obviously don't have problems with HMRC.

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08th Sep 2011 10:30


I've not had any problems from HMRC regarding the computations, and I would be surprised if Iris would allow you to ignore the purchase date if there were any issues (although it isn't guaranteed!)

I would email PTP to recommend the idea for the next update, as from my point of view it has saved plenty of time

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12th Sep 2011 17:41

May not be churning

The IFA may be selling investments that do not match the clients risk profile.

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12th Sep 2011 20:46

PTP and capital gains

I also use PTP for individual tax returns.  When I have a brokers' schedule I attach that to the tax return and enter two or three dummy entries on the PTP software so that I get the right answers in the correct boxes on the SA return.  I then make sure that I do not submit the CGT calculations generated by PTP.  PTP did amend their program so that you could overwrite the number of share disposals (I flatter myself to think that this was at my request) as it was a point that I made to them.

You do not need to enter acquisition dates on the SA return and in many cases will not be able to do so as the investments may have been pooled.

Incidentally for trusts you are still supposed to enter each transaction (like old style individual returns).  I have started attaching brokers' schedules along with a note in the white space explaining what I have done.  It saves a lot of time and so far (touch wood!) HMRC have not complained.

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13th Sep 2011 07:47


Just sent in a trust return without acq dates manually and was acceprted without question.  Not sure what benefit the acq dates for trusts could be....


Can I just give a warning.  Fund advisers and stockbrokers are creating investments for trusts because of the difference between CGT rate at 28% and tax rate at 50%.  I have found however some are unauthorised roll-up funds this is oftennot clear from the name.

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