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What is needed to win the next General Election?

If there was a candidate to reform our tax system would they win the election.

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Boris won the last election on the back of Brexit. Could someone win on the back of genuine tax reforms?

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By paul.benny
30th Jul 2021 13:53

No.

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Replying to paul.benny:
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By johnjenkins
30th Jul 2021 14:06

Where's your imagination?

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Replying to johnjenkins:
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By paul.benny
30th Jul 2021 14:41

What's imagination got to do with it?

Changes to the tax system invariably mean that some people lose out. And there are few people more vocal than middle-classes when they are deprived of some privilege.

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Replying to paul.benny:
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By johnjenkins
30th Jul 2021 15:12

"Changes to the tax system invariably mean that some people lose out".
Yes agreed, that's why we have to think outside the box (imagination) and come up with a tax system that works for all not just a few. I'll give you just one example.
Every business gets registered for VAT but no money changes hands between them. The only people that get charged vat is Joe public (which was how vat was meant to work). Simple flat rate of turnover portion of sales to Joe public, job done.

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Replying to johnjenkins:
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By paul.benny
30th Jul 2021 17:00

Point stands. Some will lose and so will shout loudly to and it becomes a non-starter.

Your VAT reform suggestion is called sales tax in the US. It brings with it a whole bureaucracy of having to provide exemption certificates to suppliers, anti-avoidance measures so that businesses don't go buying lots of stuff for personal consumption, etc.

VAT has it's complexities* but as taxes go, its relatively progressive, relatively difficult to evade and has relatively low costs of collection. Which may be why every developed economy apart from USA has a form of VAT.

* the complexities are largely politically driven (eg zero-rating of children's clothes) or anti-avoidance (reverse charge).

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Replying to johnjenkins:
A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
30th Jul 2021 18:24

I've often wondered why UK B2B VAT doesn't work as it does in countries like NL, where if a domestic transaction is between VAT registered parties it is reverse charged. Would stop a lot of VAT reclaim fraud and other revenue losses wouldn't it?

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
30th Jul 2021 14:03

You just need to be better than those around which currently is a very low bar.

I think I could get voted in locally with a few quid and some good social media behind me.

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Jason Croke
By Jason Croke
30th Jul 2021 14:28

Tax reforms might be long overdue, but it is not an interesting topic in terms of election campaigns, its too complex - it'll be perceived as a "rich" persons thing and if people don't understand it, they aren't going to vote for it.....just like Brexit.

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Replying to Jason Croke:
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By johnjenkins
30th Jul 2021 14:46

Understand it or not, they did vote for Brexit.
"Complexity", therein lies the problem. Make it simple and people will go for it. Brexit was simple, in or out, people weren't interested in the cogs they never are. Does anyone ever read the small print?

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By Geoff56
30th Jul 2021 14:34

I would be tempted to vote for anyone who promised to abolish plans for compulsory MTD for ITSA.

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Replying to Geoff56:
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By johnjenkins
30th Jul 2021 14:46

So would many.

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By David Ex
30th Jul 2021 14:49

johnjenkins wrote:

Boris won the last election on the back of Brexit. Could someone win on the back of genuine tax reforms?

No. Not in the top 10 of most people’s priorities, I would have thought. (Assuming you mean system changes and not tax rises/cuts.)

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Replying to David Ex:
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By johnjenkins
30th Jul 2021 15:16

Total system change which will inevitably lead to either tax rises or cuts. Was Brexit one of people's top priorities? I doubt it. I think most people were shocked when we were given a referendum that Government would act upon.

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By Chris Maslin
30th Jul 2021 14:57

Seems to win an election it'd need to have a catchy 3 word slogan and no substance. Get everyone spouting "pay less tax", bluff your way out of any questions about it, then do whatever the hell you like with actual tax rates/rules. Guaranteed to win!

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Replying to Chris Maslin:
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By johnjenkins
30th Jul 2021 15:19

What about "finance under kontrol".

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Replying to johnjenkins:
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By Chris Maslin
30th Jul 2021 15:30

"magic money tree"? Tho I like that yours has the feel of Russian influence in it...

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Replying to Chris Maslin:
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By johnjenkins
30th Jul 2021 15:45

Da

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Replying to Chris Maslin:
Jason Croke
By Jason Croke
30th Jul 2021 16:28

How about "taxation, taxation, taxation" as an election campaign? Anyone? :)

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By SXGuy
30th Jul 2021 15:04

Whoever it is, I won't be voting for them. My vote is now lost to any one aftet the year we've have. I trust none of them.

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By Tax Dragon
30th Jul 2021 15:58

Next election?

No chance. Too much else going on.

One day.... sure, it's possible. But I put it to you that, if a party adopted a manifesto that included a genuine reform of tax, that might indicate that the party was genuinely progressive - and the manifesto would also include a lot of other good stuff. If that party was elected (and let's assume that result was based on genuine policy, not the lies and personality politics that currently prevails), it'd be the overall package that got it elected.

If you mean could a single-issue party, the single issue being tax reform, gain power... I very much hope (but very much think) not.

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By Hugo Fair
30th Jul 2021 16:06

Amongst the few parental instructions that I remember from many moons ago was the injunction to "Never discuss politics or religion or sex with strangers"!
At least the other two can be (intellectually) stimulating, but politics ... bah humbug!

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Tax Dragon
30th Jul 2021 16:19

Worst advice ever.

If you don't discuss, you've only got your opinion to go by.

That way lies the madness of Trumpism.

(Though possibly you have to choose your stranger!)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Hugo Fair
30th Jul 2021 16:47

This was the post WWII society of stiff upper-lips, where confrontation was to be avoided at all costs as was any demonstration of emotion (and therefore opinion).
No wonder I welcomed the '60s ... although the chances of lucid philosophical exploration seem to be rapidly diminishing in the world now where, in a curious reflection of the '50s, confrontation is not allowed (for the different reason that a person has wholesale 'rights' to their beliefs remaining unchallenged).

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Tax Dragon
30th Jul 2021 17:07

You should send that [as an] idea for discussion into The Long View. I think (hope) it's not quite as bad as you say. At least, it's not all one-way movement - there's even a fightback (at least, in the UK) happening against the deplatforming of people you disagree with. (On tax reform or otherwise.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
30th Jul 2021 17:15

As part of cancel culture I demand that my tax bill is cancelled

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Replying to Arthur Putey:
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By Tax Dragon
30th Jul 2021 17:20

Yours and everybody else's?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
30th Jul 2021 17:46

Just mine. I'll vote for the I'm all right Jack/Jaqueline/They party

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Replying to Arthur Putey:
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By Tax Dragon
30th Jul 2021 18:29

New s35(1) and (1A) ITA 2007.

(1) An individual (other than Arthur Putey) who makes a claim is entitled to a personal allowance of £12,570 for a tax year if the individual meets the requirements of section 56 (residence etc).

(1A) Arthur Putey, with or without a claim, is entitled to a personal allowance equal to his total income (as defined at Step 1 of s23) plus £5.

Would this do it for you?

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
30th Jul 2021 18:19

Provided I get a tax refund at my highest marginal rate on the £5.Failing that I'll just knock up some spurious R&D and BADR claims.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By More unearned luck
30th Jul 2021 19:05

Wouldn't everyone change his or her name to 'Arthur Putey' by deed poll?

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By Tax Dragon
30th Jul 2021 19:41

It didn't take the tax planners long to find opportunities with that reform!

Maybe I need to draft some anti-avoidance and anti-forestalling?

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A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
30th Jul 2021 17:14

Manifesto:

The economy is ruined because of Covid and Brexit
The government has bporrowed crazily and we are about to enter a period of inflation
We are committed to measures to combat climate change, which have economic costs
We are committed to HS2 and other hyper expensive infrastructure projects
We want to reform taxes, but that won't stop them going up

VOTE FOR US!

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Replying to Arthur Putey:
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By Tax Dragon
30th Jul 2021 17:21

I'm in.

(OP was right after all.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
A Putey FACA
By Arthur Putey
30th Jul 2021 17:47

Apart from the word "genuine"

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Flag of the Soviet Union
By thevaliant
02nd Aug 2021 09:48

No.

No one is interested in reforming the tax system. In all honesty, the people who make the rules, and those who exploit the rules; are perfectly happy with it being as complicated as possible. Lip service to 'tax simplification' or 'tax reform' is exactly that.

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