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What now on Class 2 nic on SATR's?

Update on class 2 and satr interaction. If any

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Hi all

Could you please let me know your recent experiences on this matter? I've read various articles and it still seems to be an issue.

Scenario. Submitted a 2017 SATR using well known commercial software. HMRC send a tax calculation omitting the correct class 2 nic amount stating it's based on the information they hold. etc etc.

Having phoned HMRC helpline, queueing for a while, the advise was ' to re-register the taxpayer as self employed'. Yes HMRC have had the SA1, 64-8, submitted and accepted 2017 SATR etc etc. I've had to go through questions HMRC already have the answer to in triplicate, rubber stanped etc.

Does anyone, more in the know, have an HMRC update or work arounds for the above please?

Many thanks 

Replies (21)

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By K81
30th Oct 2017 11:45

I've telephoned NICO directly before & they have set up the client whilst on the phone. I think it does depend on who answers your telephone call whether this will get done.

Thanks (1)
Replying to K81:
By SteveHa
01st Nov 2017 12:13

Do you have a number? I have a client where NICO are recording Class 2 due despite cessation being properly recorded on the SATR back in 2014/15. The only number I can find has the robot spout some bullsh!t before hanging up on me.

Thanks (0)
Replying to SteveHa:
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By Steven Dring
06th Nov 2017 09:40

If you call the normal HMRC agent priority line and tell them the situation, they can patch you through to the NI department who will update the details over the phone. You'll need the date they started as self employed etc and be aware, if they haven't been paying class 2 NIC for several years and should have been, they'll get a backdated bill.

Thanks (2)
Replying to SteveHa:
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By RICHARDBIBBY
06th Nov 2017 12:57

Try 0300 2003500.

Still an ongoing problem with HMRC and NICO - I thought that I had seen them all then another variation comes up. Don't forget to check that NICO are not still collecting by DD - it happens!

Thanks (0)
JCACE
By jcace
30th Oct 2017 12:25

HMRC told me that they pull their info from NICO, so although HMRC have known of self-employment, NICO might be unaware, hence the apparent discrepancy.

Thanks (2)
JCACE
By jcace
30th Oct 2017 12:27

As an aside, HMRC operative also told a colleague that the reason there were no Class 2 NICs showing in the calculation was because the taxpayer's income was under £11,000 and you don't pay Class 2 NI if your s/e earnings are less than that!!!!

Thanks (1)
By Duggimon
30th Oct 2017 12:29

If you're registering clients as self employed using SA1 then that may be the reason for the issue, that registers them for self assessment but if they're self employed you should use CWF1.

Thanks (3)
Replying to Duggimon:
By SteveHa
30th Oct 2017 13:20

Anyone remember "Joined up Government"?

Whatever happened to it?

Thanks (1)
Replying to SteveHa:
By Duggimon
30th Oct 2017 15:46

While I agree that the lack of communication between HMRC departments is, for the most part, atrocious, in this instance there literally isn't an option on SA1 to declare you're self employed.

It's hardly HMRC's fault that this person wasn't registered for Class 2 NIC when nobody told them at any point that the person ought to be paying it.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Duggimon:
By SteveHa
30th Oct 2017 15:55

That's as maybe, but the whole premise of joined up Gvt was to avoid multiple notifications. If the SA1 is inadequate, surely it should have been re-designed.

Thanks (0)
Replying to SteveHa:
RLI
By lionofludesch
30th Oct 2017 16:38

It's nothing to do with SA1. If it was, only the newly self employed would be affected.

I've been self employed for nearly 30 years, happily paying my Class 2. Suddenly, from 2015, I wasn't.

It's actually about bits of information dropping off the system for some reason.

Thanks (0)
Replying to SteveHa:
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By Vaughan Blake1
01st Nov 2017 16:45

Joined up Government....

I think it tied itself up in a knot!

Thanks (0)
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By Vaughan Blake1
30th Oct 2017 13:21

If the client registered for SA using a SA1, how did they register for Class 2 NIC? Have they actually been paying Class 2?

Thanks (1)
RLI
By lionofludesch
30th Oct 2017 14:02

Yeah - I had this for about half a dozen folk, including myself!!

I resolved all six in a single 10 minute phone call to NICO (after a 15 minute queue). You need name, address, dob and NI number, if I recall correctly. Maybe UTR, I can't remember.

Thanks (2)
Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Vaughan Blake1
01st Nov 2017 16:42

Might be worth sending in a BR19 request to see if they have been carefully putting your contributions away safely for your pension!

Thanks (0)
Replying to Vaughan Blake1:
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By monksview
06th Nov 2017 10:40

Good luck with that, I've had a couple of BR19 results through recently and they have now overcomplicated that too, extremely hard to decipher whether it would be advantageous to continue working and contributing.

Thanks (0)
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By Taxhurts
06th Nov 2017 11:01

Had this on a few clients, they were delighted to get letters from HMRC saying they’d overpaid until I told them they hadn’t!
The system dropped them when they moved Class 2s to the SA return. All of a sudden NICO knew nothing about them.
You need the date they started self-employment, even if it was 30 years ago. They’ll then put them back on.
Ridiculous farce

Thanks (0)
Morph
By kevinringer
06th Nov 2017 13:14

SA1 doesn't give notice of self-employed. I register my clients by logging into my agent HMRC account then going to https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/home/business-registration. I use https://www.gov.uk/stop-being-self-employed for notifying of cessation. If the client has a UTR I very often do these by phoning NICO 0300 200 3500. If you've been speaking to the SA ADL they can put you straight through to NICO and avoid the voice un-recognition system.

Thanks (2)
By buttercup books
06th Nov 2017 15:49

One client with low self employed earnings is also in receipt of Carers Allowance. The HMRC - SA software, will not allow a YES answer - to - "do you wish to voluntary pay Class 2 NI" -

When I questioned it - I was told Carers Allowance carries Class 2 credits so you don't need to pay it - anyone know if this is correct information ?

Thanks (0)
Replying to buttercup books:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
06th Nov 2017 16:37

Hello Buttercup,
Have you tried this?
https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits/eligibility

Thanks (1)
By buttercup books
09th Nov 2017 11:34

Thank you Red Leader,

HMRC are as clear as mud as usual

Under "Carers" it says You're on Carer's Allowance - you get class 1 credits automatically,

Under - who can't get credits - it says You can't usually get credits if you're -"self-employed and need to pay Class 2 NI"

So I guess if you have class 1 credits you don't need to voluntarily pay class 2

Apparently the client paid Class 2 NI a couple of years ago, and it was refunded by HMRC as not required

I send off for a Pension Forecast - let's see what comes back

thanks again

Thanks (0)
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