I have previously done paper returns for elderly clients with property capital gains. Today I have helped a couple file their 2 capital gains tax returns online using HMRC's capital gains tax on property system. When they set up their account they were given a capital gains tax property account number which is different from the UTR. When they submitted their returns they were given a confirmation of the amount to pay together with a payment reference number. However, when they then click on how to pay & are offered bank transfer or debit card & they click on bank transfer, then they get the standard HMRC bank details plus the payment reference to use - this is not the payment reference they have just been given, instead it is their capital gains tax property account number.
It makes sense to me to just use the cgt account number as the reference but I am somewhat confused as to why they have been given a different reference number which is linked to the specific return. I assume it doesn't matter which to use - can anyone confirm what they have been advising clients to do & if this is on HMRC's own advice.
Replies (12)
Please login or register to join the discussion.
They are given two reference numbers both beginning with an 'X'. One of them will be XCGT012345... which is the CGT account reference number. This number is the same for all CGT returns the taxpayer makes.
The other reference number is specific to a CGT return and is generated after it is submitted.
I don't think it matters which one is used. Both should reach the right place. Confusingly, the new CGT service asks you to pay using both references.
There's also a third number.
Account number
Return reference number
Payment reference number
I THINK I saw a fourth, different payment reference number, at one stage and had a mini heart attack thinking I'd given the client the wrong one. Can't find that now though so take this comment with a pinch of salt.
Whilst Daniel is correct, I just want to take the opportunity to say what a holy F up the whole CGT reporting thing is. I do many, and spend more time on sorting out the IT infrastructure than I do on the actual return in every single case.
While it's definitely annoying, I haven't found it to be that bad?
The worst part is getting the client to jump through the hoops to set up a CGT account and have it authorised in the Agent Services Account.
Also why can't the agent services account have a ruddy client list built in? It's like HMRC forgot to specify it as part of scope and had a falling out with their software developer.
So it does seem probable that the system for dealing with 1 property disposal has at least 3 different reference numbers.
Makes sense.
To HMRC.
Yet another (flawless) work in progress, then?
Many laypeople have absolutely no idea that the reporting arrangements exist, in the first place. Why, would they?
From my experience, most Solicitors aren't advising their client's of the existence of the reporting requirements! Surely, a greatly missed opportunity for HMRC to use some initiative?
An oxymoron if ever there was one. HMRC and initiative, in the same sentence.
Given the utter balls up of this, it gives you a lot of hope for MTD for income tax which will be along the same lines of "cluster of systems not speaking to each other, agents have to sort it all out".
but but but but "agile development" or something.
This discussion is very interesting in that I set up CGT accounts for 2 clients last year. Once the accounts were set up and authorised by the clients everything went smoothly.
But this year is a completely different story - again property has been sold and, foolishly, I assumed everything would be OK. I cannot gain access to either account, have made 7 phone calls to HMRC, have also dealt with their online chat, which keeps telling me to use accounts that I am authorised for. The last comment has been that I am not authorised for either CGT account!! I may be a bit daft but I am not stupid!! I again pointed out that I had submitted 2 returns last year - am waiting for a response. I have finally managed to speak to someone co-operative who told me that new guidance has been brought out during the last week, letters/forms will be sent to the clients for completion by me with a deadline of 2 weeks from the date of the letter in order to avoid a penalty. Hopefully we can complete within the deadline