What reference do you use when paying cgt

Reference for paying HMRC re cgt

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I have previously done paper returns for elderly clients with property capital gains. Today I have helped a couple file their 2 capital gains tax returns online using HMRC's capital gains tax on property system. When they set up their account they were given a capital gains tax property account number which is different from the UTR. When they submitted their returns they were given a confirmation of the amount to pay together with a payment reference number. However, when they then click on how to pay & are offered bank transfer or debit card & they click on bank transfer, then they get the standard HMRC bank details plus the payment reference to use - this is not the payment reference they have just been given, instead it is their capital gains tax property account number.

It makes sense to me to just use the cgt account number as the reference but I am somewhat confused as to why they have been given a different reference number which is linked to the specific return.  I assume it doesn't matter which to use - can anyone confirm what they have been advising clients to do & if this is on HMRC's own advice.

 

Replies (12)

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By daniel_
14th Jul 2021 12:08

They are given two reference numbers both beginning with an 'X'. One of them will be XCGT012345... which is the CGT account reference number. This number is the same for all CGT returns the taxpayer makes.
The other reference number is specific to a CGT return and is generated after it is submitted.

I don't think it matters which one is used. Both should reach the right place. Confusingly, the new CGT service asks you to pay using both references.

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Replying to daniel_:
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By Wanderer
14th Jul 2021 12:51

There's also a third number.
Account number
Return reference number
Payment reference number

I THINK I saw a fourth, different payment reference number, at one stage and had a mini heart attack thinking I'd given the client the wrong one. Can't find that now though so take this comment with a pinch of salt.

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By SteveHa
14th Jul 2021 12:21

Whilst Daniel is correct, I just want to take the opportunity to say what a holy F up the whole CGT reporting thing is. I do many, and spend more time on sorting out the IT infrastructure than I do on the actual return in every single case.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By daniel_
14th Jul 2021 12:42

While it's definitely annoying, I haven't found it to be that bad?
The worst part is getting the client to jump through the hoops to set up a CGT account and have it authorised in the Agent Services Account.

Also why can't the agent services account have a ruddy client list built in? It's like HMRC forgot to specify it as part of scope and had a falling out with their software developer.

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By TessaW
14th Jul 2021 12:47

Impressive own goal by HMRC. My clients were chuffed that they had successfully done the returns and it had been straightforward (ignoring the earlier headache of trying to actually set up a tax account) and were keen to go ahead & just pay the tax (a week early). However, the moment they saw that they had been given 2 different payment references everything changed and the husband said "we should never have bothered to do this xxxxx return in the first place".

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By TessaW
14th Jul 2021 13:00

As it happens I have today received copy letter from HMRC relating to a client's paper CGT return sent in during April 2021. This gives 2 weeks from the letter date to pay the CGT and gives 2 reference numbers, neither of which seems to be a CGT account number - there is a CGT property disposal number to use for any queries and a payment reference number to use for the payment. So it does seem probable that the system for dealing with 1 property disposal has at least 3 different reference numbers.

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Replying to TessaW:
RLI
By lionofludesch
14th Jul 2021 13:31

TessaW wrote:
So it does seem probable that the system for dealing with 1 property disposal has at least 3 different reference numbers.

Makes sense.

To HMRC.

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Replying to Justin Bryant:
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By Tom Cross
14th Jul 2021 14:49

Yet another (flawless) work in progress, then?

Many laypeople have absolutely no idea that the reporting arrangements exist, in the first place. Why, would they?

From my experience, most Solicitors aren't advising their client's of the existence of the reporting requirements! Surely, a greatly missed opportunity for HMRC to use some initiative?

An oxymoron if ever there was one. HMRC and initiative, in the same sentence.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
14th Jul 2021 16:01

Given the utter balls up of this, it gives you a lot of hope for MTD for income tax which will be along the same lines of "cluster of systems not speaking to each other, agents have to sort it all out".

but but but but "agile development" or something.

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By Vallery Lee
16th Jul 2021 10:40

This discussion is very interesting in that I set up CGT accounts for 2 clients last year. Once the accounts were set up and authorised by the clients everything went smoothly.
But this year is a completely different story - again property has been sold and, foolishly, I assumed everything would be OK. I cannot gain access to either account, have made 7 phone calls to HMRC, have also dealt with their online chat, which keeps telling me to use accounts that I am authorised for. The last comment has been that I am not authorised for either CGT account!! I may be a bit daft but I am not stupid!! I again pointed out that I had submitted 2 returns last year - am waiting for a response. I have finally managed to speak to someone co-operative who told me that new guidance has been brought out during the last week, letters/forms will be sent to the clients for completion by me with a deadline of 2 weeks from the date of the letter in order to avoid a penalty. Hopefully we can complete within the deadline

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