Apologies if this is a common question; searched but couldnt find any recent replies.
I have a potential client referred by mutual friend who is looking to move their payroll from current accountant in the middle of the tax year. This will be my first payroll client (I am currently processing payroll for my employer so have experience) and I will be using Brightpay. Because this is my first client I am unsure what a suitable initial set up fee would be, espeically mid tax year, and what to charge monthly to process.
I believe they have roughly between 20 and 40 employees; unsure on payment frequency and actual details so information at the moment is limited but I am interested to see what other people would charge?
Heard switching mid year is a headache but looking at Brightpay seems like a simple(ish), yet time consuming process?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
CJ
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Replies (29)
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It's not too bad with Moneysoft. I've only done it once but I'd prefer to do it at the year end.
What you lose is the detail of the first part of the year.
The alternative, if you have the detail, is to re-enter the entries week by week or month by month. Whether that's worthwhile depends on the quantity of work involved.
I don't have any payrolls that large. Maybe do a search and see what a payroll bureau would charge.
If they are monthly then a very good option is to replicate the early part of the year as a parallel run, checking each month's tax/NI/net pay totals as you go. THis also gives you the assurance that everything is set up correctly at the point of live running.
With most decent payroll software it doesn't take long to whiz through a few months of monthly payroll.
Another vote for waiting until payroll year end if you can.
Not every software uses exactly the same method (I think sage is based on the old 'paper' rules for example) so parallel runs give differences of pence etc.
Be careful to avoid duplicate RTI records etc, which I think is a possible pitfall.
If you aren't used to running lots of different payrolls you may well come across all sorts of things that could stump you, such as SMP, SPP and other equally awful problems.
With 20-40 employees it can be a nightmare enough when you have got the experience.
I would not recommend rerunning payrolls up to date because of the way some payrolls - eg Sage, as has been said already - use an unusual basis for calculating NI.
You could only give a sensible quote if you'd done this sort of thing before. I try to import as much as possible via csv, but this often doesn't quite work out, and it's very easy to miss some problem that will come back to bite you later.
Brightpay allows CSV import mid year. There is a certain amount of manipulation needed. It depends what you are importing from. You need to have a great working knowledge of payroll.
No one can advise on fee to charge unless more info is to hand.
Please be mindful. You process one payroll And are considering a mid year switch. I run 40 payrolls and still shudder at mid year switch unless there are only a couple of employees ( write it up from scratch) or its constant each month. Imports of SSP SMP P30 info is not for the faint hearted.
If you have to move mid year then remember to use the same payroll IDs for the staff, otherwise HMRC due to their incompetence might create a duplicate employer file!
I wouldn't charge for a payroll set up - they've paid fees up to now - where is the incentive to move if they're going to be hit with additional one off costs from new unknown supplier? Maybe I'm too soft.
Depending on circumstances I might suggest a nominal fee of £100 say if they are expecting some sort of cost, but I'd personally take the hit, with the view that there is recurring fee income each month thereafter.
A mid-year setup is relatively straightforward in Brightpay. There are several import options depending on what payroll software was previously used. Do you know what software their accountant was using?
I would say however, moving accountant is not a decision that is taken lightly. One would have to assume his/her work is not up to scratch. In which case, the payroll may need to be redone from the beginning of the tax year. Until you know the work necessary it is very difficult to advise you on what to charge.
Brightpay support is excellent, it might be worth calling them for advice on how to proceed.
Best of luck!
Thank you everyone for your replies/advice.
Not sure what previous software they were using; however I understand that there have been a number of issues hence the reason to switch mid year so can only imagine this will add to the complexity of it all!
I am happy to take a hit and spend more time to get it 100% right so re-doing payroll from start of the year is an option and do a parallel run if I can get the information.
If re-running payrolls for the year, I assume I would just leave the RTI submissions as pending and only post the RTI from the current/future period?
Again, thank you all for your advice. I will speak to the client and get a clear picture of what is involved and go from there.
CJ
Thank you everyone for your replies/advice.
Not sure what previous software they were using; however I understand that there have been a number of issues hence the reason to switch mid year so can only imagine this will add to the complexity of it all!
I am happy to take a hit and spend more time to get it 100% right so re-doing payroll from start of the year is an option and do a parallel run if I can get the information.
If re-running payrolls for the year, I assume I would just leave the RTI submissions as pending and only post the RTI from the current/future period?
Again, thank you all for your advice. I will speak to the client and get a clear picture of what is involved and go from there.
CJ
DO NOT under any circumstances run the payroll from the beginning of the tax year. doing this will duplicate what has already been submitted and it will double up what has been sent to HMRC on the RTI reports. generating a large Tax and NI charge
the only way around it, is to set up the employees and input the year to date details. then process the payroll from there on. this will then only submit the additional processed salaries
Don't be ridiculous! Most payroll software will allow you to 'Mark an RTI as submitted' so figures won't get doubled/duplicated if there is a need to input payroll from the beginning of a tax year for a client. It is certainly possible to do this in Brightpay and probably Moneysoft (allow I don't know that for sure). Doing a mid-year setup is not the only option.
Moneysoft will cancel the little lightning bolts for previous months as soon as you submit a later RTI.
You can't actually mark them manually as submitted. You get a message warning you that Moneysoft hasn't submitted RTI for earlier months and asking you to confirm you want to continue.
ChrisRollo91 wrote:
Thank you everyone for your replies/advice.
Not sure what previous software they were using; however I understand that there have been a number of issues hence the reason to switch mid year so can only imagine this will add to the complexity of it all!
I am happy to take a hit and spend more time to get it 100% right so re-doing payroll from start of the year is an option and do a parallel run if I can get the information.
If re-running payrolls for the year, I assume I would just leave the RTI submissions as pending and only post the RTI from the current/future period?
Again, thank you all for your advice. I will speak to the client and get a clear picture of what is involved and go from there.
CJ
DO NOT under any circumstances run the payroll from the beginning of the tax year. doing this will duplicate what has already been submitted and it will double up what has been sent to HMRC on the RTI reports. generating a large Tax and NI charge
the only way around it, is to set up the employees and input the year to date details. then process the payroll from there on. this will then only submit the additional processed salaries
That is incorrect; two issues are being confused. The issue of HMRC doubling up previously submitted entries is associated with changing payroll software in mid year and therefore potentially changing RTI ID on the employees (usually employee reference number, but a special ID on Sage at least). It happens whether or not you resubmit earlier entries on the second pass through. So even if your first submission on the new software is eg month 8 you will still double up liability if the employees have new RTI IDs.
There is no particular issue with resubmitting the earlier month RTI messages if the RTI IDs on the employees remain the same. Employers do that all the time without any issue at all, if for example the details on one or more employees were filed in error. The RTI system at HMRC handles resubmissions perfectly well.
But likewise there is no need to resubmit the earlier month RTI messages when parallel running, and all sensible payroll software offers the option of processing parallel runs without filing RTI.
I never charge for the setup, and especially if coming from an other provider who can simply supply the .csv exports from theirs, which can be imported here. In such circumstances, set up doesn't take very long at all, and is much quicker than manually keying even a small payroll.
Cost for the payroll itself depends on the work involved in running each month.
Beware there are problems with Brightpay.
Switching during the year duplicated YTD figures, as brightpay generated new references for all employees. Led to big payment demand from HMRC and was a nightmare to sort out.
Beware there are problems with Brightpay.
Switching during the year duplicated YTD figures, as brightpay generated new references for all employees. Led to big payment demand from HMRC and was a nightmare to sort out.
That isn't particularly a Brightpay problem.
*Whatever* software you switch to, and whatever software you were using previously, you must make sure that you use the same RTI ID in the new software as the old software was using for each employee. Usually this is the employee reference number, but in Sage, for example, there is a special RTI ID for each employee which is a long string of letters and numbers.
I would suggest that you quote a price per hour for the set up then a fixed fee for regular payroll, plus retention of the SMP compensation and the Admin fees for Earnings Attachments Orders. Payroll providers often under-estimate their value and clients regularly do not appreciate their value also! Lots of time can be spent on trivial queries when business owners are not aware of how the system works. I use Moneysoft which is probably the most user-friendly. Good luck!
Can u use the same software as the previous accountant. You can ask him to let you have a copy of the file (the client has paid for this) this will avoid many of the pitfalls already mentioned. What does concern me as others have said is that you are taking on a large payroll as your first client.
Fees it would just depend
