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When do you rectify your errors with HMRCs RTI

If you accidentally over reported employees earning to HMRC by what date would you have corrected it

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Hi, 

I am not sure if I am allowed to post on here because I am an employee but I desperately need help. 
I applied for Univeral credit back in April when I was laid off. Unfortunately my crazy employer decided to continue submitting my usually income to HMRC. I was not getting the money in my back account but my employer between April and July kept informing HMRC I was in fact been paid. I raised an RTI dispute with UC and showed them my bank statements that were bone dry. UC still calculated my claim to be £0 because of the RTI sent to HMRC and because of the payslips. I spoke to my employer first and they told it me it was an error that they would correct at the end of April but it's now September and they still haven't!. When I login into my personal tax account, the incorrect income my employer reported for April to July is still there. Anyway I lost out on 4 months worth of UC because of my employer so when the money they told HMRC I was earning finally fell into my bank account in August I refused to pay it back to them.I've become fed up frankly. 

My question for the accounts is, what is the deadline for updating HMRC about incorrect income reported?. If the incorrect information was reported in April should it not have been corrected by now? What happens when it's a series of incorrect information?. Is it possible that my employer could have actually rectified their errors with HMRC but for some reasons it's not showing up on my personal tax account ?.

Any help will be appreciated, I am qt desperate as my employer is threatening legal action to get that money back. 

Replies (14)

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By Paul Crowley
11th Sep 2020 12:35

What did the employer pay to you? Was it same as the reported net wages to HMRC?
Have they asked for it back?
Think your question through
If wages were reported April to July then clearly could not have been corrected in April.
Are you still laid off?

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Tey
11th Sep 2020 13:05

Quote:

What did the employer pay to you? Was it same as the reported net wages to HMRC?
Have they asked for it back?
Think your question through
If wages were reported April to July then clearly could not have been corrected in April.
Are you still laid off?

They paid me in August, a sum of the total I would have otherwise have made had I been in full time employment between April to July. Usually I am paid monthly. The amount reported to HMRC is £100 shorter than the actually amount paid.
Yes they have asked for it back.
Yes I am still laid off.

Sorry if I am not making any sense.
Please can you tell me generally
When should errors in April have been corrected?
When should errors June have been corrected ?
When should errors july have been corrected ?

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Tey
11th Sep 2020 13:08

Quote:

What did the employer pay to you? Was it same as the reported net wages to HMRC?
Have they asked for it back?
Think your question through
If wages were reported April to July then clearly could not have been corrected in April.
Are you still laid off?

Sorry, if you were asking for the actual figures it was £1,990.00. It’s actually 80% of what I would usually have gotten.

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Replying to Tey:
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By Matrix
11th Sep 2020 13:12

Have you been laid off or furloughed?

It sounds like they are not changing the RTI submissions since they have made a claim under the CJRS (furlough) scheme.

If they paid you the money that makes sense but not why they are asking for it back, unless this is fraud.

You need to call Citizens Advice or ACAS since this is an employment issue.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By Paul Crowley
11th Sep 2020 13:34

My guess was furlough as well
But employer should have put in writing and explained to employees the exact position. AND PAID THE EMPLOYEE at the correct time.

@OP
Payslips exist?
if furlough then employer would get money from HMRC at 80% of gross of normal pay.
DO NOT repay. Get a confirmed written explanation, with payslips.

As above sounds like fraud.
Check gateway to see if Sept appears

Thanks (1)
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By Tey
11th Sep 2020 14:01

You are both correct. Originally I signed a furlough contract. All my payslips have furlough written on them. But in April was when my employer explained you can’t get furlough because they first submitted RTI to HMRC about me on 25 March so I don’t qualify for CJSR. This is correct. I can see on my gateway account my first RTI was in fact on that date. I have spoke to CAB and they said to report them to HMRC just in case. I did.
I can’t see the September submission until the 25th September. For August absolutely nothing was reported- not even £0. The last RTI submission was £0 on the 28th July.

This is a case of carelessness and gross incompetence. I don’t know why they weren’t able to see beforehand that I wouldn’t not qualify.

My question to you as accountants is, what is the deadline for rectifying mistakes with HMRC from April?. Should it be corrected by the end of the next month? By the end of the tax year or as I’ve read online quarterly?

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Replying to Tey:
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By Matrix
11th Sep 2020 14:20

They could have put through nil for you in May as a cumulative figure which would have overridden April. Or they they could do this in any subsequent submission.

So did they pay you in error? Was your employment terminated - overriding the furlough? Just because they couldn’t get the money back doesn’t mean that they don’t have a legal basis to honour the furlough agreement.

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Replying to Tey:
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By gillybean04
11th Sep 2020 14:23

I don't believe there is a deadline from HMRCs side.

https://www.gov.uk/payroll-errors/correcting-your-fps-or-eps

They probably didn't see beforehand that you would not qualify as the eligibility criteria was not published for the first time until the 15th April I believe.

However this is potentially more complicated than just wrong RTI. If, when you agreed to be furloughed, your employer didn't make it contingent on them being able to recover the funds then potentially the offer of furlough would be legally enforceable against the employer (at least until April, depending on circumstances), regardless of whether they could reclaim from the taxpayer.

As others have suggested, you need legal advice on the employment issues. Not least because the answer to those issues will affect what the correct submissions should be.

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Replying to gillybean04:
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By Tey
12th Sep 2020 14:46

Disappointed to hear this. HMRC should do better at enforcing employers to report correct details because it effects employees lives!.

This is my first job since finishing uni, I didn’t know until yesterday that furlough contract was legally enforceable. I’m such an idiot! But I’m still not paying them back the money because they made me loose out on over £1,000 worth of UC.
Don’t employers have a duty to operate payroll sensibly? Is submitting continuous information which you know if false not breach of HMRCs rules?.

Also there were some unpaid taxes, who becomes liable for paying these? Who faces the fines? Since they still haven’t corrected the records?

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Replying to Tey:
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By Paul Crowley
12th Sep 2020 15:29

Nothing to do with HMRC
You have a problem employer
Everything that is wrong is employers fault.
Why the F are you repaying?
Why did you not follow the advice you were given by people who know how this works.

Time for helpful answers to cease
You clearly think you know better than us

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
RLI
By lionofludesch
12th Sep 2020 23:03

Quote:

Nothing to do with HMRC

Yes it is. They make the rules. They should police them.

What's the point of rules that you can ignore if you don't fancy complying?

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Tey
12th Sep 2020 23:26

Quote:

Nothing to do with HMRC
You have a problem employer
Everything that is wrong is employers fault.
Why the F are you repaying?
Why did you not follow the advice you were given by people who know how this works.

Time for helpful answers to cease
You clearly think you know better than us

I’m not repaying them!.NEVER.
I sent them a grievance and have made a Acas claim.
I’m the idiot that didn’t read my contract and took what they said at face value. Employers are such cheats!

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By Paul Crowley
11th Sep 2020 14:49

We would be asking questions all day to still not get full details.
You employment is not dependent upon whether employer gets a refund.
Phone citizen's advice and get an appointment soonest.

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Cheshire
11th Sep 2020 16:17

Agree.

Also phone Acas and get some help from them (free).

But tell them ALL of the facts from the start, because its piecemeal and not covering everything on here).

Take a set back, write it down chronologically, with amounts and info to include furlough (not laid off).

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