When should amended accounts be dated?

I'm filing amended accounts for my company to Companies House

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When should amended accounts be dated? The date of the original accounts they amend, or the date of signing and / or filing?

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
07th Feb 2024 21:34

The fact that you are having to amend the accounts at all implies you made at least one mistake the first time. The fact that you are asking this question does not give me confidence that your second set of accounts are any more accurate than the first.

Engage an accountant to check your work before you dig yourself an even deeper hole.

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By ngonyama
07th Feb 2024 21:45

The reason for the amendment is that the original micro-entity accounts filed did not include a note on the Director's Loan Account. I'm not an accountant, and I'm only human. I'm well versed in using Xero, and all the figures come from its balance sheet and depreciation schedule. I'm meticulous about most things. Do you have an answer for me, or just more scorn?

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Replying to ngonyama:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
07th Feb 2024 22:19

The same answer as the first one. I can expand a bit if you like.

You claim to be well versed in Xero, but admit to not being an accountant. That being the case, I suspect that your belief you are well versed in Xero is an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Even if you did happen to genuinely be well versed in Xero, that still doesn't guarantee that the entries you have made in it are correct. Just to cite one example, you could competently use Xero to record the purchase of a train ticket, competently using the software to calculate the split between the net cost and the VAT. Whilst your operation of the software could have been impeccable, the entry would have been wrong because train tickets don't include VAT.

That is even without getting into the difference between keeping accurate accounting records and preparing accounts. I know from using it that Xero's own statutory accounts production software can produce inaccurate accounts in certain situations. Only by having accounting knowledge would you be able to spot and fix such errors. Or what things are included in accounts, but excluded for tax or....

I could go on, but please feel free to ignore me. They're your accounts and you are the only one potentially facing issues if there are other problems you don't know enough to spot.

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By ngonyama
07th Feb 2024 22:30

It's for that reason I have an account code for train tickets, because I already know they don't include VAT.

I'm not an accountant, no, but I spent a lot of time learning about such things. Not as long as an accountant, and not at that level, but I've run various businesses for a number of years, and I'm not an idiot.

I have confidence in the book-keeping that I've done, and I've checked the figures over many times. Yes, I did overlook something. And Companies House has a procedure for remedying that. I'm sure even accountants sometimes make errors.

I respect your opinion, and I thank you for responding. If you can suggest an answer to my question, great. If not, no worries. And I will get an accountant for next year.

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Replying to ngonyama:
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By FactChecker
07th Feb 2024 23:12

See you in a year's time then?

In the meantime ... https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/examples-of-amended-accounts

But not quite sure what you mean by "When should amended accounts be dated?"
Is that a field in the software you use to prepare your amended version (in which case that's probably a question for your software supplier)?
CH instructions are quite clear that the amended accounts must be for exactly the same period and prepared 'as at' the same date (of the accounts being replaced).

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By ngonyama
07th Feb 2024 23:50

Thanks. I'm using a Word template, because Xero can't do it. To clarify, I mean the date that comes after: "Approved by the Board on..."

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Replying to ngonyama:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
08th Feb 2024 09:03

Loving that you are using a Word template because "Xero can't do it" for two reasons. Firstly Word, for rather obvious reasons, is not ideal for preparing financial information since there are no checks figures add up. Secondly, if you do a search for "amended accounts Xero" the first result is an article that literally tells you how to prepare amended accounts in Xero. You do have to print and post them, but still a lot more reliable than a Word template.

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Replying to stepurhan:
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By ngonyama
08th Feb 2024 18:55

Xero doesn't offer that to non-accountants and non-book-keepers, as far as I know. I checked with them. Also, my figures come from an Excel spreadsheet.

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By taxdigital
08th Feb 2024 06:17

I’m going to answer this in the wider interest of accountants searching for the statutory reference behind this blatantly abused provision.

S.454 CA 2006
The answer is the original date.
Reg 4(2)(a)(iii) here.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/373/regulation/4

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Replying to taxdigital:
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By Tax Dragon
08th Feb 2024 07:02

QED to my "ignore me" point below! :-)

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Replying to taxdigital:
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By ngonyama
08th Feb 2024 18:57

Thank you!

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Replying to taxdigital:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Feb 2024 19:04

taxdigital wrote:

I’m going to answer this in the wider interest of accountants searching for the statutory reference behind this blatantly abused provision.

S.454 CA 2006
The answer is the original date.
Reg 4(2)(a)(iii) here.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/373/regulation/4

Have you not misinterpreted that?

Surely that refers to ignoring any events that happened between the date of the original accounts and the date upon which the revised accounts were approved.

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By Tax Dragon
08th Feb 2024 06:20

If there's an accountant watching this that has never filed amended accounts, I'd take a punt that this is their first year in practice. (@OP, you don't know me, so I should let you know that I'm not an accountant, never have been an accountant and have no desire to be an accountant. This is the reaosn i have never filed amended accounts. You should ignore any comment I make about doing that or indeed anything I say about accounting. The logical answer, for me, to your question would be that you'd take the date of approval of the revised accounts. But, for me again, accounting rules at times have seemed even less logical than those of the profession I do practise - tax.)

I have a supplementary question: if you use the later date, as to me seems logical, and there have been further relevant post balance sheet events in the meantime, should amended accounts include reference to them?

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RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Feb 2024 07:35

Meanwhile, my gas boiler needs some attention.

I've had a lot of gas boilers in my time but I think I'll still give the engineers a call.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
08th Feb 2024 09:37

It's a fair point, but there are quite a few regulars in here would seem to deem themselves capable of restoring, or at least maintaining, their own cars.

And a car is something you can take out on the roads and, if there's a fault with the workmanship, someone could die.

Death by accounting mishaps would be unusual.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Feb 2024 09:45

Tax Dragon wrote:

It's a fair point, but there are quite a few regulars in here would seem to deem themselves capable of restoring, or at least maintaining, their own cars.

And a car is something you can take out on the roads and, if there's a fault with the workmanship, someone could die.

Death by accounting mishaps would be unusual.

No. I stick a bit of wind in the tyres occasionally and fill up the petrol tank and washer reservoirs and that's my limit.

My knees aren't up to much else anyway.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
08th Feb 2024 21:30

Incorrectly inflated tyres can kill.

But "quite a few regulars in here" was not intended to refer only to you.

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Out of my mind
By runningmate
08th Feb 2024 09:19

Plan B - don't bother filing amended accounts, just get it right next year!

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By JCresswellTax
08th Feb 2024 09:55

I can use a bit of software, so I can also prepare accounts that confirm to accounting principles and company law...You have really fallen for the 'who needs an accountant when you have accounting software line' fair play.

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Replying to JCresswellTax:
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By ngonyama
08th Feb 2024 19:05

I don't profess to know everything that an accountant would know. Certainly not. But I do have a background of legal training, which is helpful regarding the law, and the obligations of a close company director.

Do you propose that, in the absence of an accountant for the previous year (which, despite criticism, is my business decision), I not use the powerful tools that Xero provides? It's not exclusively for accountants, although designed for them, and I'm proud that I was able to learn it, given its lack of usability for those not worthy enough to be a CPA...

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By taxdigital
08th Feb 2024 19:50

lionofludesch wrote:

Have you not misinterpreted that?

Surely that refers to ignoring any events that happened between the date of the original accounts and the date upon which the revised accounts were approved.

No, b(ii) makes it clearer: that the annual accounts have been revised as at the date of the original annual accounts.

PS - I spotted this by chance as I don't get any notifications of updates from this site, inspite of ticking all the boxes that I am aware of!!

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Replying to taxdigital:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Feb 2024 21:22

taxdigital wrote:

lionofludesch wrote:

Have you not misinterpreted that?

Surely that refers to ignoring any events that happened between the date of the original accounts and the date upon which the revised accounts were approved.

No, b(ii) makes it clearer: that the annual accounts have been revised as at the date of the original annual accounts.

PS - I spotted this by chance as I don't get any notifications of updates from this site, inspite of ticking all the boxes that I am aware of!!

In that case, what's the last paragraph about? Apparently requires the date that the amended accounts were approved to be stated.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
08th Feb 2024 21:28

Typing the same thing at the same time. What are we, joined at the braincell?

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Replying to taxdigital:
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By Tax Dragon
08th Feb 2024 21:26

I might withdraw my QED. What do you make of "and must, when approving the revised accounts, cause the date on which the approval is given to be stated in them". To me that sounds like the date of approval of the revision.

Currently I agree with lion. (Usual caveats.)

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By FactChecker
08th Feb 2024 21:49

But that (and all the details) is prefaced by "the directors must before approving the revised accounts under section 414, cause statements as to the following matters to be made in a prominent position in the revised accounts".
So, in my reading of it, the date of approval must indeed be stated - but not in a prescriptive place or style (just mentioned 'in a prominent position').

Whereas OP asked "When should amended accounts be dated?"
Admittedly the meaning of that question is open to interpretation, but I took it mean 'the date as at which the amended accounts are now correct' - which is the date of the accounts being replaced.

So I guess everyone and no-one is right - depending on what OP meant to ask!

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Replying to FactChecker:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Feb 2024 22:29

FactChecker wrote:

But that (and all the details) is prefaced by "the directors must before approving the revised accounts under section 414, cause statements as to the following matters to be made in a prominent position in the revised accounts".
So, in my reading of it, the date of approval must indeed be stated - but not in a prescriptive place or style (just mentioned 'in a prominent position').

Whereas OP asked "When should amended accounts be dated?"
Admittedly the meaning of that question is open to interpretation, but I took it mean 'the date as at which the amended accounts are now correct' - which is the date of the accounts being replaced.

So I guess everyone and no-one is right - depending on what OP meant to ask!

So the amended accounts are dated before they were amended?

Apart from sounding suspiciously like nonsense, it could be interpreted as forgery.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By ngonyama
08th Feb 2024 22:39

Yes, that would seem illogical, and my signature and the date is for the approval.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By ngonyama
08th Feb 2024 22:39

Yes, that would seem illogical, and my signature and the date is for the approval.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By ngonyama
08th Feb 2024 22:39

Yes, that would seem illogical, and my signature and the date is for the approval.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By FactChecker
08th Feb 2024 23:08

Why not read the legislation (link was provided much earlier in the thread)?
If you find it hard to understand what I wrote (which doesn't say what you suggest), then maybe you'll find the dry legislation easier ... it's crystal clear.

EDIT: I see that taxdigital has saved you the bother by copying out the salient points - and provides a better balanced exposition than I did.

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Replying to FactChecker:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Feb 2024 23:42

FactChecker wrote:

Why not read the legislation (link was provided much earlier in the thread)?
If you find it hard to understand what I wrote (which doesn't say what you suggest), then maybe you'll find the dry legislation easier ... it's crystal clear.

EDIT: I see that taxdigital has saved you the bother by copying out the salient points - and provides a better balanced exposition than I did.

Yes, I did. Which is why I was able to refer to the last paragraph.

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Replying to FactChecker:
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By ngonyama
08th Feb 2024 22:37

To clarify, I meant the date of approval beside my signature as Director. On the cover page, I've included the statement: "These accounts replace the original accounts filed. They are now the statutory accounts. They are prepared as they were at the date of the original accounts, and not as at the date of the amendment. Accordingly, they do not deal with events between those dates."

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Replying to ngonyama:
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By FactChecker
08th Feb 2024 23:13

Not sure how exactly this relates to the question that you appeared to be asking originally ... but it seems both correct and clear. So all good?

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By taxdigital
08th Feb 2024 22:44

lionofludesch wrote:

In that case, what's the last paragraph about? Apparently requires the date that the amended accounts were approved to be stated.

There are two ways in which defective accounts can be revised:

a) Revision by replacement (Reg 4(a)

Should directors go down this route a statement as to matters set out in a(i) to a(v) should be made in a prominent position within the revised accounts and dated (the revised date).

b) Revision by a supplementary note (Reg 4(b)

Where they wish to revise the defective accounts by a supplementary note, the date of revision should be stated in that supplementary note.

And that is what the last para is about.The date of the accounts remains the original date.

With that I'm out.

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Replying to taxdigital:
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By ngonyama
08th Feb 2024 22:45

Thank you! Appreciate this.

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