Where to enter a trading loss brought forward for Profit and Loss on Companies House's online accounts submission

Co. House Online: Loss brought fwd goes where?

Didn't find your answer?

Hi all

I'm Director of a Limited Company, it made approx. £8k loss in the last 2013/14 financial year so we didn't pay any corporation tax. This 2014/15 year it's made a very small profit of approx. £3k. As I understand it, I can carry the £8k loss (I believe called a trading loss?) from 2013/14 forward and cancel out the £3k profit so there's no corporation tax to pay this year? Is that right?

If so, my main question is how do I submit it? I'm trying to use the Return Service to submit full micro-entity accounts to Companies House and I can't see where to put this loss carried forward on the Profit and Loss page. There's boxes for Turnover, Cost of Sales, Admin. expenses etc. but I can't figure out where to put a loss coming forward, and without doing so it looks like a £3k profit eligible for corporation tax.

Would welcome some help! It's the first time I've tried to submit the accounts myself, going to close the company soon as I don't put time into it anymore, just trying to get this year submitted first.

Replies (17)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Jun 2016 18:37

No need to enter losses brought forward at all.

Cumulative balance only.

In fact, if you're having the company struck off, no need to submit any figures at all to Companies House.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By threedots
26th Jun 2016 19:22

Thanks for replying. So could you please tell me how do I calculate and where would I enter this "cumulative balance"? It doesn't seem as though I can enter it in Turnover, Cost of sales, Distribution costs, Admin. expenses, Other operating income or Interest and those are the only places I can enter figures on the P&L page.

I'm a bit surprised you don't think I'd need to submit any figures? The financial year I'm doing is Oct 14-Sep 15 so has to be done by Thursday (end of June), then I have a couple of transactions that have been done since then. Wouldn't I need to submit accounts for 14/15 and 15/whenever I close in 16?

Thanks again!

Thanks (0)
Replying to threedots:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th Jun 2016 20:50

threedots wrote:

Thanks for replying. So could you please tell me how do I calculate and where would I enter this "cumulative balance"? It doesn't seem as though I can enter it in Turnover, Cost of sales, Distribution costs, Admin. expenses, Other operating income or Interest and those are the only places I can enter figures on the P&L page.

I'm a bit surprised you don't think I'd need to submit any figures? The financial year I'm doing is Oct 14-Sep 15 so has to be done by Thursday (end of June), then I have a couple of transactions that have been done since then. Wouldn't I need to submit accounts for 14/15 and 15/whenever I close in 16?

Thanks again!

No, once you apply for strike off, your Companies House filing obligations end.

You don't need to file a profit and loss account for a micro company.

Sure you're filing with Companies House and not HMRC?

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By threedots
26th Jun 2016 21:33

Hi, thanks again.

I'm filing with CH only at this stage. I know I only have to submit the abbreviated Balance Sheet to them by end of 9 months (this Thursday) and then the full accounts need to be at HMRC within 3 months after, but to complete the Balance Sheet I need to calculate the Profit and Loss Account. And that includes the Corporation Tax that I also need to pay (if there is any?). So for that reason it seems I also need to do the P&L now even though I don't need to actually file it with CH.

It does all seem a bit backwards, which is why it's been troubling me so much!

Applying for strike off seems like it'll take longer than the 4 days before these accounts are due. But also the last invoice was sent in Feb and I received payment in Apr 2 months ago, I see CH say there can't be any trading activity in the last 3 months in order to strike off, so I guess I can't? Or is that based on when the invoice is sent not when pay was received?

I also made a quarterly VAT payment in Apr too, can that be ignored too or is that trading activity in the last 3 months?

Thanks (0)
Replying to threedots:
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Jun 2016 07:19

threedots wrote:

It does all seem a bit backwards, which is why it's been troubling me so much!

It's because you're assuming that you have to wait until ten minutes before the deadline arrives before you can start your accounts.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By threedots
26th Jun 2016 19:23

(Oops double clicked reply and posted twice.)

Thanks (0)
By Tim Vane
26th Jun 2016 22:39

Your profit for the year is what it is, and has nothing to do with losses from last year.
But the advice you've had already is sound - apply for strike off. If you rack up fines for the accounts these will disappear with the company. Just ensure you ring HMRC and tell them you have no taxable profits so that they don't object to the strike off.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Tim Vane:
avatar
By threedots
26th Jun 2016 22:47

What about the payment I received and the VAT payment I made 2 months ago, do either of those count as trading activity which means I can't strike off yet?

There's £1700 in the company account, the company owes me some/most of that anyway, can I just transfer it all out before striking off?

Thanks!

Thanks (0)
Scalloway Castle
By scalloway
26th Jun 2016 23:12

Trading is buying and selling, not receiving payments due and settling debts.

You must close the company bank account before the company is struck off as the account will be frozen on strike off and any money in it paid to the Crown as bona vacantia. You must pay off any other company debts before you pay yourself.

Thanks (0)
Replying to scalloway:
avatar
By threedots
26th Jun 2016 23:26

OK, this is very helpful, thanks everyone.

I gather I'll still have to file statutory accounts for 14-15 and 15-most of 16 with HMRC after it's struck off, but not with Companies House? How long do I have to file those accounts with HMRC?

And you're all of the mind that this will take longer than the next 4 days, which means I'll incur a fine from CH for late submission, but not to worry about paying it?

Thanks (0)
Replying to threedots:
By Tim Vane
27th Jun 2016 00:30

OFFS. Forget about the accounts. After the company is struck off you can't file anything with HMRC or anybody else as the company no longer exists. It is dead. Finito. An ex-company. It is no more. A company that does not exist cannot owe fines, file returns, buy groceries or contemplate the state of its own non-existence. Once the company strike off is complete you just walk away into the sunset. Clean.

Thanks (3)
Replying to Tim Vane:
avatar
By threedots
27th Jun 2016 01:17

Much as I appreciate the Monty Python Dead Parrot feel of your comment, it's at odds with Companies House who say "You must send final statutory accounts and a Company Tax Return to HMRC." on https://www.gov.uk/strike-off-your-company-from-companies-register/close...

And it's not clear whether the accounts are part of the things you do before you actually strike it off. Are you aware of this but suggesting ignore it anyway?

Thanks (0)
Replying to threedots:
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Jun 2016 08:45

Are you asking for advice or offering it ?

Thanks (1)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By threedots
28th Jun 2016 15:43

Clearly I'm asking for advice! But when the advice I get is contrary to official info, I don't see what's wrong with asking for clarification/confirmation?

You specifically say my CH filing obligations cease when I apply to strike off, ok, so what about the HMRC ones? I get Tim Vane's point that a company which is struck off can't file accounts, but CH say you still have to send them to HMRC. Should I do this before striking off, or are you saying I should just ignore it?

Thanks (0)
Replying to threedots:
RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Jun 2016 16:33

OK - well you need to calculate your tax liabilities for (presumably) the year to September 2015 and the five months to Feb 2016. You seem to have done this and found that the answer in nothing.

You do not have to prepare proper Companies House accounts for these. If you work through the CT600 forms, you'll find that, near the end, there's a box to tick along the lines of "I'm not attaching accounts because the company is in liquidation".

Given that there's nothing to pay, you could probably get away with just sending a letter in saying there's nothing to pay and you intend to strike off the company but - obviously - what HMRC are prepared to accept is entirely up to them.

If you're toey about Companies House penalties, shorten the Sept 2015 accounting period by a day.

Thanks (0)
RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Jun 2016 07:28

All your CH filing obligations cease when you apply for strike off.

Empty the bank account and do it.

When did you last trade ? ie Sell stuff/Do work.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By threedots
28th Jun 2016 15:44

My last invoice was in Feb 2016 and the money was received in April.

Thanks (0)