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Who believes quarterly updates are a good thing?

Given Jon's epic post and the comments there seem very few who agree with quarterly updates.

Didn't find your answer?

Jon's post created much response most in favour of scrapping quarterly updates yet not adverse to digital record keeping, albeit over a period of time.

Replies (75)

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
16th Sep 2021 18:21

Yeah there should be more carrot and less stick. I heard somewhere that when they brought in some other online requirements, folk got discounts on their tax bills. Don't know if that's true or not. But it's a great idea and it's exactly what I think should happen with MTD.

Trouble is the people who decide these things have no imagination.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By AdamMurphy
16th Sep 2021 18:39

RTI for payroll got a ridiculous amount of financial incentives thrown at it

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Replying to AdamMurphy:
RLI
By lionofludesch
16th Sep 2021 19:14

AdamMurphy wrote:

RTI for payroll got a ridiculous amount of financial incentives thrown at it

Au contraire.

Nothing for RTI.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Hugo Fair
16th Sep 2021 20:07

Quite right ... it was the PAYE 'project' before that which attracted (upto) 5 years worth of incentives.
Strangely enough that was the compulsion to file on-line - albeit only once p.a!

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Paul Crowley
16th Sep 2021 20:18

But they were really generous because they saved just so much labour compared to paper P35s and paper p60s
HmRC able to redeploy SO many staff

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
16th Sep 2021 23:07

Yes, I think £900 in total, it was something like £250,£250,£150,£150, £100 over the years- there was also the ploy of setting up limited companies, registering them for PAYE and then submitting nil returns until that ruse got stopped.

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Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
16th Sep 2021 23:34

DJKL wrote:

Yes, I think £900 in total, it was something like £250,£250,£150,£150, £100 over the years- there was also the ploy of setting up limited companies, registering them for PAYE and then submitting nil returns until that ruse got stopped.

The last one was definitely £75. I'm going to go for £250, £250, £150, £100, £75.

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Hugo Fair
16th Sep 2021 23:48

Spot on ... on both points (albeit as per Lion I can't recall exact amounts).
The other ruse wasn't stopped - the one where software companies (in order to recoup their lost revenue from charging extra for printed forms) introduced an extra fee for on-line filing ... but claimed it was 'free' because 'the govt was paying for it'!
There'll be people out there right now working out schemes for grabbing money off the back of MTD (and this time I don't mean the software developers).

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Paul Crowley
16th Sep 2021 20:12

Agree
People who trade all have a knowledge system outside of MTD
Sometimes it is as simple as the bank balance

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By David Ex
16th Sep 2021 18:17

Tax Dragon wrote:

how can the earlier availability of info for the accountant be a bad thing?

Everyone will want their return doing as soon as MTD Q4 submitted.

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Replying to David Ex:
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By Tax Dragon
16th Sep 2021 18:53

So instead if a mad two week rush at the end of January, there'll be a nice controlled mass submission over 8 weeks in April/May, all done and dusted in time for the summer holidays.

You're making it sound better and better.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By David Ex
16th Sep 2021 19:02

Tax Dragon wrote:

You're making it sound better and better.

I’m not involved as a practitioner so zero effect on me there but if it works for everyone, that’ll be wonderful.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Paul Crowley
16th Sep 2021 20:13

Two weeks?
Think again

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Jo Nokes
16th Sep 2021 20:44

No, I have 9 months to spread the load, getting clients to send their papers to me over the period, no mad rush nowadays, if the papers come in late, I may not get them done in time. Tough t****y. But quarterly is a big problem, unless like Peter Or Charlie, I get all clients on QB or Xero, with bank feeds . Too bad for the computer illiterate, but hey ho, that’s life

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By Open all hours
16th Sep 2021 22:00

Quarterly updates are excellent provided that they are (a) accurate and (b) appreciated, understood and acted on by those running the business.
There is absolutely no need for anyone else (least of all an agency of the state) to be involved. That way lies madness.

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Replying to Open all hours:
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By johnjenkins
17th Sep 2021 09:31

That is the sort of reply I thought I would be getting. So a dog walker earning £15k a year would get no benefit from quarterly updates, nor would the Accountant, nor would HMRC.
So this begs another question. Is it turnover or type of business, or both, that would benefit from quarterly updates?
Now if HMRC phased it over a period of say 5 years with say those earning over £50k first and pro rata downwards it might work.
So a sensible approach would be quarterly updates but not mandatory, so those that feel it could benefit would take part and those that feel it unnecessary wouldn't.

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Replying to johnjenkins:
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By lionofludesch
17th Sep 2021 09:48

johnjenkins wrote:

So a sensible approach would be quarterly updates but not mandatory, so those that feel it could benefit would take part and those that feel it unnecessary wouldn't.

Under what circumstances would a taxpayer benefit from sending quarterly updates to HMRC ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By johnjenkins
17th Sep 2021 09:58

My view is none. I also don't believe that HMRC would benefit by receiving quarterly updates. I don't think quarterly updates should be any part of MTD.

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Replying to johnjenkins:
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By Jo Nokes
17th Sep 2021 14:07

I agree with you. The reasons given for quarterly are spurious. Charlie pointed out that this was simply a way to determine that the records were being kept digitally, but I don’t see how this is demonstrated if only totals are filed, not individual transactions.. one could just fill in totals and file, probably what Vat filers might be doing. The reason MTDfVAT was introduced was supposed to be for error elimination. I don’t think this has been proved as yet. My experience tells me errors will still be made when bookkeeping is digital, and these can produce more tax or less tax, it won’t be one way traffic

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Replying to Jo Nokes:
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By johnjenkins
17th Sep 2021 14:59

HMRC made a serious error when they told us the reason for MTD. The reasons they give do not stand up so really MTD should be scrapped. Ithink by now most Accountants realise that the only reason for MTD is to tag individual transactions and cross check them. (although that might be a few years into the future). All that money has to be spent on something that will give a return.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Tax Dragon
20th Sep 2021 13:45

lionofludesch wrote:

Under what circumstances would a taxpayer benefit from sending quarterly updates to HMRC ?

If there was carrot, as suggested above.

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Replying to johnjenkins:
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By Open all hours
17th Sep 2021 12:06

I think the dog walker would have time to contemplate the tax implications of £60/day turnover while actually out on the job. There is no need whatsoever for HMRC to be pulling his chain.

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Replying to Open all hours:
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By johnjenkins
17th Sep 2021 12:40

Her chain. She's a scottie. Her hubbies name is Jack Russell (honest).
I also had a client called Robin Hood and yes he did run off with his merry men. I've got a few other aptly named clients.

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By Calculatorboy
16th Sep 2021 23:26

It's simply a civil servants wet dream and serves no other purpose

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By justsotax
17th Sep 2021 09:29

What they said: 'we are getting rid of Tax returns for good, this will save everyone time and money.

What they meant: you will report your profits on a quarterly basis, on which we will eventually require payments on account of tax/nic similar to VAT, In addition we will charge penalties for late submission thereby closing the tax gap through charges that are not actually tax.

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