Share this content
99

Who's next?

driving away

Didn't find your answer?

The change of format, and frequent bans for callous (but honest) replies drove some eminent contributors away (PNL amongst others, for example).

Now those lacking formal qualification have been targeted, and some will doubtless leave (I may be one of them).

Who's next. Are sift going to pitch ACA against ACCA, or ATT/CTA against ACA/ACCA. Surely CIMA are a prime target next. No real bedfellows.

AAT - who are we kidding. We don't need any barely trained accounts people on AWeb.

Bookkeepers are just taking up space.

And poor old Tom, working in industry. Easy pickings.

Who do you reckon is next to go?

Replies (99)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Jul 2020 13:36

DJKL wrote:

I am, though, starting to feel guilty about the omission of Durham.

Don't. Durham's occupation of the most northerly part of Yorkshire is nothing short of an invasion.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jul 2020 14:40

I quite liked it, we were down in early March taking daughter's stuff to Nottingham where she now lives, we turned around and came back up and stopped overnight in Durham, visited cathedral in morning (which is stunning) had hot chocolate with mallows in coffee shop up near cathedral then went over to Stadium of Light and then home to Edinburgh after. A Grand Two Days Out. (and now likely to be our sole 2020 holiday)

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
09th Jul 2020 11:56

DJKL wrote:

I am, though, starting to feel guilty about the omission of Durham.

Don't.
Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By foxtrot
08th Jul 2020 19:30

Thanks for the "deference" - I was lucky enough to be an undergraduate when WT Baxter was the prof - it was a privilege to have been one

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By foxtrot
08th Jul 2020 19:30

Thanks for the "deference" - I was lucky enough to be an undergraduate when WT Baxter was the prof - it was a privilege to have been one

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By foxtrot
08th Jul 2020 19:30

Thanks for the "deference" - I was lucky enough to be an undergraduate when WT Baxter was the prof - it was a privilege to have been one

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By foxtrot
08th Jul 2020 19:30

Thanks for the "deference" - I was lucky enough to be an undergraduate when WT Baxter was the prof - it was a privilege to have been one

Thanks (0)
Replying to foxtrot:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
09th Jul 2020 10:47

At university I read more journal articles by Baxter than by any other individual, back then they were /had been usually published in TAM or the ICAEW magazine (when both were worth reading).

Thanks (0)
John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
08th Jul 2020 10:41

I'd like to challenge the logic of the original question.

Steve is asserting that we are targeting unqualified accountants and trying to drive them from the site along with AATs, ATTs, CIMA members and bookkeepers.

Nothing can be further from the truth. We are trying to be a site that caters for the whole spectrum of the accounting profession and can accommodate interactions with outsiders who have issues they want to raise. That's always been our objective.

What I would like to see is a respectful, grown up conversation around all of the issues that matter to members where we can accommodate differing perspectives and points of view. That's how we learn new information.

I do remember times gone by for both the good things and the bad. But having returned to the front line, I could see a growing level of snark and had clear evidence from multiple sources that it was steering visitors away from getting involved.

That's the only thing we want to drive from the site, and the co-operation of longstanding community members in that effort would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks (3)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
08th Jul 2020 10:59

You literally posted a question yesterday that, despite your backpedalling, said that unqualified were a problem.

This is the real problem with this site. It states that it is for the accountancy profession, but berates people for telling "outsiders" that they need professional advice. (Which is the best advice for most outsiders because they don't know enough to understand answers or present all relevant information) It claims to be for the whole profession but has a leading staff member post a query saying unqualifieds are an issue.

Yes, there was roughness to responses in the old days. I'm not going to deny that. But i think the growing level of snark is down to frustration with this site consistently failing to be what it claims to be.

Thanks (8)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
avatar
By AWeb72
08th Jul 2020 11:09

Your headline was that unqualified accountants (in this sense, those that don't have an exam certificate or pay an annual fee) were a thorn in the side of exam-qualified accountants.

You then implicated all of those were cowboys. It's there in black and white.

Thanks (1)
Replying to AWeb72:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jul 2020 11:19

"Listen-I don't have to come here to be insulted, I can stay at home and listen to my wife."

Sackcloth and ashes now required.

Thanks (0)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
Lone Wolf
By Lone_Wolf
08th Jul 2020 11:13

I'm going to give you some advice, which feels weird as it looks like you're much older than me, but here goes.

When my wife and I used to argue about trivial tings, I would argue back, there would be a lot of back and forth and the argument escalated and dragged on. Even when I was in the right, and had a completely valid argument (which was all the time if she was honest), for some reason she didn't want to listen. She wanted to feel aggrieved and whinge to her pals on the phone about how unfair it all was.

I learned the trick to not prolonging these bizarre engagements was to just leave her to it. She goes off in her huff, stamps her feet a bit and whinges to someone who'll listen, but ultimately cools down much quicker as I've not added fuel to her rage by arguing. She normally slinks back not long after with the sort of tone that acknowledges she's been a bit of a screwball without actually saying so.

I'd suggest you adopt a similar approach here.

Every time you have an input it adds duel to the existing thread, and leads to another thread being opened up for further arguments to be had. You've already stuck your foot in a steaming pile of [***]. Sit down and take your shoes off rather than spreading it around everywhere as the stink is driving folk away.

Thanks (2)
Replying to Lone_Wolf:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jul 2020 11:21

I see my f and d issue is contagious.

In effect once deep in the hole stop digging.

Thanks (1)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
Oaklea
By Chris.Mann
08th Jul 2020 11:16

"I could see a growing level of snark and had clear evidence from multiple sources that it was steering visitors away from getting involved".

Here's how I see it; there's been a growing level of dissent, from a variety of contributors, who've grown sick and tired of seeing posts appear, which have been replied to, only for the (anon) OP to delete the post, within hours. There's been a growing level of dissent, from a variety of contributors, who see naivety, beyond belief, in some of the (downright ridiculous) enquiries, which have been raised.

There's a growing dissent John, from a variety of contributors, who are sick and tired of you never being wrong. We all have our shortcomings. It just takes b4lls to admit to them, on occasions.

Thanks (4)
Replying to Chris.Mann:
avatar
By AWeb72
08th Jul 2020 11:25

"There's a growing dissent John, from a variety of contributors, who are sick and tired of you never being wrong"

It's very Cummings-esque

Thanks (4)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
08th Jul 2020 11:21

You want a different conversation to the posters
Posters are concerned with accountants who are incompetent, incapable of basic research and look like beginners BUT who are acting for clients.
They damage the profession.
Qualifications are irrelevant. Skill and competency are relevant.
Small sized practices come across this issue much more than the guests you had on board.

Thanks (4)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
JCACE
By jcace
08th Jul 2020 11:43

Paul Crowley wrote:

Posters are concerned with accountants who are incompetent, incapable of basic research and look like beginners BUT who are acting for clients.
They damage the profession.
Qualifications are irrelevant. Skill and competency are relevant.
Small sized practices come across this issue much more than the guests you had on board.


I agree with this sentiment, Paul, and I would hope that that's John's intention too, however his recent question was interpreted. Cowboy accountants who are incompetent, incapable of basic research and look like beginners BUT who are acting for clients do indeed damage the profession, and that, surely, is where the debate should be aimed. (Apologies for going off thread and onto another.)
Thanks (1)
Replying to jcace:
avatar
By AWeb72
08th Jul 2020 12:01

There's only one way to interpret the use of the word unqualified. It's nowhere near as similar as incompetent.

Thanks (1)
Replying to AWeb72:
avatar
By Tax Dragon
08th Jul 2020 14:12

The question that has been lost in all of this [thanks both to John's inept handling and the virulent overreaction to that] is "how do you determine competence?"

By Aweb vote (is that why we have so many?)?

Or is it self assessed?

Forget Cummings; think Rumsfeld. (What I know I don't know is scary and seems to increase all the time. What I don't know I don't know is surely huge by comparison. [I wouldn't know....] I know enough to know some of my own areas of incompetence. I suspect I don't know enough to know them all - i.e. I suspect I think I am competent at some things that actually I might not be.)

And if I might venture an answer to the question I posed Steve, isn't Aweb here first and foremost to inform? To help us make sure we haven't wandered from the correct paths? To help us improve our own (as well as others') services? And if others, isn't that because we might know something they don't? (I see I have phrased my "answer" as additional questions. Forgive me, it's because my navel is a horrible place to spend too long in. Time I lifted my gaze and moved on.)

Thanks (0)
Replying to Tax Dragon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Jul 2020 14:27

Tax Dragon wrote:

And if I might venture an answer to the question I posed Steve, isn't Aweb here first and foremost to inform?

Speaking for myself, I'm just here for the craic.

Thanks (3)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By Tax Dragon
08th Jul 2020 14:30

Next question: is that all you want it to be good for? Pretty sure it's not Sift's vision.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Tax Dragon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Jul 2020 14:39

We all have our priorities.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By Tax Dragon
08th Jul 2020 14:54

Yours include director's bonuses, Part Time Furlough and Terminal Losses, it seems. And that's just last month.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Tax Dragon:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Jul 2020 15:07

That's all in the past !!

Looking forward, I won't have any need for questions.

Thanks (1)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jul 2020 15:42

Not retirement, surely not.

There may be no escape even via that route,what about all the member organisations you will end up being volunteered by others to assist (all that free time)and end up treasurer etc. The only way to avoid your past haunting you is new name, replacement legend and witness protection type relocation.

Thanks (1)
Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Jul 2020 16:22

Seems a good time to go. I've already dumped a few big clients who needed to go onto proper software . I didn't think I was doing them any favours if I kept them for a couple of years and then passed them on to someone who had a different way of working. I've about 20 returns left this year, plus a couple of companies which I said I'd do and I've said I'll do a couple of 2021 returns for folk with April year ends. Payroll I'll hand over from 6 April 2021. Should have everything sorted by this time next year.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jul 2020 22:28

Well do enjoy the peace and quiet

I can recommend the dark side working as a part time FD, messy books and records are then totally within your control to prevent, no looking over your shoulder at MLR/CPD et al etc and less pure tax/accountancy.Maybe the odd client might want you as a part time employee-whilst I have my three day week position I also still act as company secretary/in house accountant for what was one of my biggest clients, it is certainly a more relaxing way of earning a crust/keeping the brain working.

Thanks (2)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
09th Jul 2020 12:35

Today is a perfect example of benefits of P/T work, 12.30 and that is me, heading out into the garden (to fit roof on summerhouse)

Although not literally true, as there are a few high clouds,

"Sun is shinin' in the sky
There ain't a cloud in sight
It's stopped rainin' everybody's in the play
And don't you know
It's a beautiful new day, hey hey"

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
09th Jul 2020 12:42

DJKL wrote:

Today is a perfect example of benefits of P/T work, 12.30 and that is me, heading out into the garden (to fit roof on summerhouse)

Although not literally true, as there are a few high clouds,

"Sun is shinin' in the sky
There ain't a cloud in sight
It's stopped rainin' everybody's in the play
And don't you know
It's a beautiful new day, hey hey"

Drizzly here. Good day to do some work.

Thanks (0)
Replying to jcace:
avatar
By Tax Dragon
08th Jul 2020 17:30

jcace wrote:

(Apologies for going off thread and onto another.)

If that's worthy of an apology, then I need to apologise for carrying the thoughts from both the threads you mention over into threads about IHT, property losses and anywhere else I've commented today!

Thanks (0)
By SteveHa
08th Jul 2020 15:24

And as if a demonstration was required, my response to John not 5 minutes ago has already been moderated and deleted. Shall I just keep posting it until they get fed up?

Thanks (1)
Replying to SteveHa:
avatar
By Dib
08th Jul 2020 15:33

Unbelievable! Also, following Paul Cowley's comment way above this one I now realise that some of my posts have been moderated. This is on the other,other thread where I rewrote the odd verse from a Genesis song which was some of my finest work. That has gone along with some ancillary comment from DJKL. I may have to repost!

Thanks (1)
Replying to Dib:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jul 2020 15:44

Deleting knocked off Genesis is just the beginning.

(Clue is in the name)

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By Dib
08th Jul 2020 16:19

"Deleting knocked off Genesis is just the beginning."

Nice one!

Looks like we are now at Exodus!

Thanks (0)
Replying to Dib:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jul 2020 17:00

Leviticus sounds like a Harry Potter spell for leaving or lifting, Numbers is where all of us on here ought to shine.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Dib:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
08th Jul 2020 15:52

Ancillary is a very polite way of describing my comments, it suggests they might have purpose.

Thanks (0)
Replying to SteveHa:
avatar
By cathygrimmer
08th Jul 2020 15:42

Yes - do!

Thanks (0)
Replying to SteveHa:
John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
08th Jul 2020 16:47

As I just explained to Steve, the post was not deleted, it was caught by our automated filtering system for the use of a word that would offend American readers.

We will continue to let the debate continue as long as it is conducted in a civil manner that conforms to our community terms and conditions.
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/terms-and-conditions-of-use

Thanks (0)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
By SteveHa
08th Jul 2020 17:13

Thanks, John. Who'd have thought that a variation on "donkeyed" would be offensive.

Thanks (0)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
08th Jul 2020 19:08

And of course USA readers can have every need to understand the UK accountancy trade and conflicts therein.

Whoops is therein an affront to USA understanding?

Thanks (1)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
By SteveHa
09th Jul 2020 12:53

And it's gone again. Not just from here, but is also conspicuously missing from my Answers in my profile.

Thanks (0)
Oaklea
By Chris.Mann
08th Jul 2020 16:06

The irony of this thread is it shows up the complete idiocy of the Aweb model, where there are more than just a few responses.

I posted a response, late last night (well, late for me anyhow) and it now appears within today's conversations. More a comment and observation. Certainly not a compliant m'lord.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By justsotax
08th Jul 2020 16:42

to be honest I am shocked that the thread hasn't been closed down...….

Thanks (0)
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
09th Jul 2020 12:13

John claims to want better behaviour and an end to the rudeness. Why then, I wonder, has the following remark not been removed despite two reports:

“ As you're just an idiotic troll I'll end there.”

Thanks (1)
Replying to Wilson Philips:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
09th Jul 2020 12:47

Because the poster was the one crying to mods and can clearly therefore do no wrong

Thanks (2)
boat
By SouthCoastAcc
09th Jul 2020 20:29

I'll probably get a lot of abuse but I'm ACA and feel like I have a lot to learn.

Thanks (0)
By Steve Holloway
13th Jul 2020 09:56

I used to be a regular on here and even met some of you up in London for a get together. At its best AWEB can be brilliant ... I was able to completely restructure the fee income for my business using data given freely by over 40 members back in 2011. Like every forum it does, however, have a dark petty side and always did going right back pre-Sift. The difference now is that other on-line resources have matured and to be honest they come without the hassle. In the same way that Facebook has removed the need for club forums and their petty cliques, Google etc have made access to reference information so easy that unless you crave on-line company then I'm not sure why you would devote your precious time here or anywhere else.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Steve Holloway:
avatar
By Tax Dragon
13th Jul 2020 11:46

Yet on one measure - number of questions being asked - Aweb appears to be thriving (compared with itself, say a year ago).

Disclaimer: I haven't done any analysis to confirm or refute that statement.

Thanks (0)

Pages

Share this content

Related posts