Why have HMRC changed the NI on PAYE submissions

NI for Directors

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Submitted PAYE for April for Director only payrolls same as we always have, using the annual NI method, software and submission shows zero NI but HMRC have changed the PAYE record to show monthly NI instead.

This has happened on some clients but not others, processed exactly the same way with the same number of Directors on the same pay etc.

Anyone else had this issue?

Replies (12)

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By Paul Crowley
17th May 2024 10:43

Did the box get ticked to tell HMRC that the person is a director?

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By johnthegood
17th May 2024 18:01

Paul Crowley wrote:

Did the box get ticked to tell HMRC that the person is a director?

Yes

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By Paul Crowley
17th May 2024 19:16

I assumed it had, otherwise it would have calculated the NI as well.
This has to be a glitch, but for HMRC to recalculate really means it is that HMRC system have a back end that nobody knows about.
Maybe the same back end that makes announcements and u-turns the next day.

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By FactChecker
17th May 2024 20:13

HMRC has many back-ends (in the system sense of the term) ... more than any one person within HMRC actually knows about or understands.
I once suggested a small research project for them (akin to a stock-take) ... hoping I could then do my usual 'trick' of asking them to justify/confirm the purpose behind each one (and so work out where efficiencies could be made through merging some or even deleting a few).
But as soon as early responses indicated the only consistent answer was FIIK, the idea was dropped (and buried).

Of course they've no shortage of the other kind - as used for press announcements!

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By lionofludesch
18th May 2024 07:14

Paul Crowley wrote:

Did the box get ticked to tell HMRC that the person is a director?

And did the box telling HMRC you were using the alternative method of calculating NI get ticked as well?

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By johnthegood
18th May 2024 13:04

lionofludesch wrote:

Paul Crowley wrote:

Did the box get ticked to tell HMRC that the person is a director?

And did the box telling HMRC you were using the alternative method of calculating NI get ticked as well?

I think (with respect) you are both missing the point - the software says no NI, the RTI filing says no NI so everything has been done correctly from our end, in fact nothing has changed in our software from one year to the next, the problem is that for some bizarre reason the online PAYE account is showing NI as due for M1.

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By Matrix
18th May 2024 13:58

In answer to the question, No, I checked all mine and no NI is due now.

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By FactChecker
18th May 2024 14:38

Not sure that they are missing the point ... in that HMRC's systems use some of the non-numerical data supplied via RTI to perform 'checks'.

They've never been willing (or possibly able) to explain the sequence of these checks - which happen multiple times as data is moved, step-by-step, through multiple processes for different purposes.
At the simplest level ... submit a file -> is the file format acceptable to the portal? If yes -> are the header details a match to an existing scheme? If yes -> are the tax year and week/month the next expected in sequence? ... and so on and on.

Eventually (and well after the file has been captured/accepted) parts of the data flow on to many other destinations - for instance DWP for UC cross-checks.
And amongst these 'back-end' processes are ones belonging to the old HMRC - the one that attempts to validate an individual's tax position on a YTD basis (and of course eventually via Y/E reconciliation).

Where they are IMHO exceedingly naughty is that, following the introduction of their vision of digitisation (whereby they push data at you to tell you what you owe), they've started to push data at you AFTER they've processed it (and in some cases changed it - the most well-known being removal of class 2 NI from S-E returns).

So the short answer is that is *possible* HMRC have 're-processed' your RTI files and are showing what they think you meant (possibly due to omission of a flag) - OR of course there could just be an almighty glitch in the software that drives what you see via a PTA. Who knows?

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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
18th May 2024 17:53

lionofludesch wrote:

And did the box telling HMRC you were using the alternative method of calculating NI get ticked as well?

Good point... it's counter-intuitive IMHO that the so-called alternative method puts directors in the same boat as a regular employee.

And another thing: well done, Lion, for beginning a sentence with "And". And to think how they told us at school that that wasn't possible!

John the Good, is it implicit that you're using HMRC's software? And, if not, whose [software]?

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By lionofludesch
18th May 2024 18:04

I'msorryIhaven'taclue wrote:

And another thing: well done, Lion, for beginning a sentence with "And". And to think how they told us at school that that wasn't possible!

Of course you can! When it follows on from an earlier point.

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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
18th May 2024 18:18

lionofludesch wrote:

Of course you can! When it follows on from an earlier point.

Hmmm... "And now for something completely different..."

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By rmillaree
17th May 2024 10:50

spooky sounds like hmrc have questions to answer here - i am preuming you have double checked rti actual submission - ie it couldnt be software glitch.

slightly worrying if this is happening for multiple clients.

Note perhaps your a twirly perhaps ? (too early)
I tend to presume paye figures are not finalised for tax month till we get to the 20th of the month could it be that there is no isue when the tax month is konws to be fully updated at hmrc's end.

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