Share this content
0
2016

Why sign up any clients to MTD yet?

Why not wait until after 7 May?

I’ve set up my ASA and I plan to link my clients soon but just wondering why yet take the next step of signing up any of my clients to MTD until after 7 May (or even waiting until Jun/Jul)?

First MTD Returns due for 1 Apr - 30 Jun, by 7Aug. 

It had crossed my mind what if I sign up sooner and then struggle to submit 31 Mar Return, but I admit that sounds kinda stupid now typing it out loud. 

I suppose my other reason to wait is to give time for any bugs to be ironed out of the system before committing clients. 

Is there any reason to do the individual client sign-up step sooner?

Replies

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
20th Feb 2019 20:29

I'm with you, the first ones (March quarter ends) will be signed up in the period 11 -31 May, after the d/d for the March quarter has gone out, but still giving time to sort out issues during June and July.

Thanks (0)
20th Feb 2019 20:46

I've told everyone who'll need to sign up to MTD to do absolutely nothing (on pain of severe IT difficulties) until the last VAT return for the old style period has been filed.

Thanks (1)
avatar
to Moonbeam
20th Feb 2019 20:51

+ paid, if the d/d problems being reported by others continue.

Thanks (0)
avatar
20th Feb 2019 22:16

Agree with others, we’ll start sorting it out in probably June.

By others’ experiences, I’d Better apply for my ASA in March.

Thanks (0)
By marks
20th Feb 2019 23:34

Agree with the above.

We wont be signing anyone up who we submit VAT returns for until June.

We will let other accountants be the guinea pigs to so out the inevitable teething problems so everything is operational when we start signing clients up.

Thanks (0)
avatar
21st Feb 2019 08:52

My advice to clients is to file March (or whatever) and then move over.

I have my ASA anyway due to Trust registrations but I would get that up and running if you can as it took us ages to get it to work (due to a historic error in our postcode on HMRCs side).

I am having my free interviews with clients now on a one to one basis and its actually nice to get everyone to sit and think about things that are available. Even if, for some, the move is really not necessary and very costly. Its surprising how many manual clients still only use computers for email. You would think there were none but I have had two already out of five manual cases.Luckily though, one has a daughter AAT qualified so he dragged her along and she will be putting him on a complete software system. Going to cost him a laptop and the software cost per month minimum, that's if he doesn't pay her for her time.

Thanks (0)
avatar
to Kaylee100
21st Feb 2019 08:59

Kaylee100 wrote:

Going to cost him a laptop and the software cost per month minimum, that's if he doesn't pay her for her time.

Can't be true, I mean didn't HMRC say it's only going to cost £36 or something??? In fact didn't they originally say it was going to SAVE businesses £100 million a year??
Thanks (4)
to Wanderer
21st Feb 2019 09:13

Wanderer wrote:

Kaylee100 wrote:

Going to cost him a laptop and the software cost per month minimum, that's if he doesn't pay her for her time.

Can't be true, I mean didn't HMRC say it's only going to cost £36 or something??? In fact didn't they originally say it was going to SAVE businesses £100 million a year??

That was lies, though.

Let's not mince words.

If Mel Stride would like to come on here to say it wasn't lies, I'll happily discuss it with him on the forum.

Thanks (4)
avatar
to Wanderer
21st Feb 2019 13:15

Well RTI was supposed to save us all time and money too, but I am still waiting for that...................

Thanks (2)
avatar
to Wanderer
21st Feb 2019 13:15

Well RTI was supposed to save us all time and money too, but I am still waiting for that...................

Thanks (0)
avatar
to snickersinatwix
21st Feb 2019 13:25

Yep, remember the big selling points from HMRC were:-

No year end P35. (replaced with 12/52/64 or even more FPSs depending on employee mix together with EPSs.)

No P46 (replaced with new employee starter form / procedures which required more information / effort than the P46.)

Certainly saved us bags of time and money!

Thanks (1)
21st Feb 2019 09:41

Thanks for your comments - a thought out just in time implementation it is then.

Thanks (1)
avatar
21st Feb 2019 09:47

We're dealing with HMRC here so how does this apply ?
" time for any bugs to be ironed out of the system "

Thanks (1)
avatar
21st Feb 2019 10:06

It would be great to get him on - but he won't.

As for lies - this country is currently running on them in all sorts of ways.

Currently I have had 5 interviews. I am not charging, which really ought to be built into the cost, as I should - its just have acted for many over 20 years, so I am not charging from a goodwill standpoint.

The costs to these 5:

- laptop, Xero annual sub, possible bookkeeper costs (currently he does it manually himself and his daughter helps him file it using his wifes ipad/tablet). £1k at least for first year.

- client with ME, almost cried. They make lots of money so she will probably use us for a full bookkeeping service. £1k extra approx (taking into account saving on annual accounts costs). Mentioned possibly trying to obtain an exemption.

- Company that uses Excel already. Will use a bridging product but isn't very good at Excel so wants us to help him make sure at the start his spreadsheets populate into the product correctly. No idea of cost but probably not that much - maybe £100 plus VAT if he chooses a paid for bridging product.

-Company that has more VAT rates than I have ever seen in my lifetime. They will move to a software package and probably pay a bookkeeper or us due to complications. However, manager is going to do less hours to compensate a bit as she wants to get rid of this side of the work and it is a business that will use management data provided by a software system. This is the one example so far where I think the encouragement to move will be worth it - but the cost won't be insignificant and it's lucky the manager has other things to occupy her time so they have some cost offset against the bookkeeper.

- Final one is already on a software package - I talked them through new sign up and making sure their package is live first before doing so. Minimum cost to change - although, a small point, now he has to use the system rather than having chosen to use it.

Thanks (0)
avatar
21st Feb 2019 09:56

This mess of a system really frustrates me as I like to be organised and involved in things early so I can be ready for when they go live.

But I can't touch this pile of rubbish at the minute.

Thanks (1)
avatar
to DaveyJonesLocker
21st Feb 2019 10:10

DaveyJonesLocker wrote:

This mess of a system really frustrates me as I like to be organised and involved in things early so I can be ready for when they go live.

But I can't touch this pile of rubbish at the minute.

I agree. Its not in our psyche to feel under-prepared.

The DD issue is particularly annoying me. I have tried to remain up to date but the advice is now conflicting.

I have a lot of time for those who are choosing to wait. Depending on how many cases I had, I think I would do the same, but I just wouldn't cope if quarter 2 came and I hadn't got some skeleton in place. I sent 20 "manual" record letters and at least half of those are likely to be quite poor when it comes to technology. (e.g I have asked for email addresses in past and they've not wanted me to have one as "they don't use computers much")

Are you speaking to clients at all about it?

Thanks (0)
avatar
21st Feb 2019 10:32

I'm going along with waiting until the last return is filed and paid under the current system. RTI is still garbage in many cases, and it's been evident for a while that HMRC refuse to accept that there's any problem their side

I've spoken to clients about the changes, and we have a few on manual records who will have to change. Two will probably pay us to do it all, but should have better records for the size of the business anyway. A couple are still dithering, and we are looking at OCR recognition of invoices and automating bank feeds as the probable way forward. They still need to learn how to turn on the computer, though.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By BigMuz
21st Feb 2019 11:41

Just finished a CIOT webinar and the HMRC attendee was rather pleased announcing that the numbers for people already signed up are now up to around 20,000.

That is 20,000 out of 1.2 million people and she was pleased with the numbers - madness.

can see the HMRC computers crashing when hundreds of thousands try to sign up at the same time as they have clearly not been properly tested with only 20,000 signing up

Thanks (0)
avatar
to BigMuz
21st Feb 2019 11:55

Huge pilot then!

Thanks (0)
avatar
to BigMuz
21st Feb 2019 12:52

I also watched the CIOT webinar and was concerned how often the HMRC representative said we are going to do things, we are only 6 weeks away from the launch, should these things not be ready by now

Thanks (0)
avatar
21st Feb 2019 12:49

After 3 weeks we have now submitted our first client under MTD Vat Pilot. It was stressful to say the least and helped by the out of date information HMRC keep putting out there. One thing that became very obvious is that each client is going to need their hand held firmly and the signup process takes quite a while individually with each client. We have attempted 9 so far and only 1 has submitted through our API software. Duplicate authorisations because the clients dont act fast enough on the link email. So beware at a very busy time of year from April onwards it is going to cause considerable extra work for everyone

Thanks (2)
avatar
to Louisemunro320
21st Feb 2019 13:39

Ahhhhh, so HMRC are emailing clients requiring them to follow a link?

Very clever.

Complicated sign up doesn't surprise me. The Trusts were a nightmare.

Thanks (0)
avatar
to Kaylee100
21st Feb 2019 13:53

Yes I managed to confirm with their MTD helpline (they have to phone you after being referred by the vat helpline) that clients need to sign up with a Business Tax Account and everything has to be attached to the clients email address. You can imagine we have emails and deleted ones/ignored ones/spam ones etc all over the place. Now adopted a tactic of apply for the link, then phone client 5 minutes later and keep them on the phone whilst they do it (they will need some basic information as well as they signup - which they invariably dont have!) Good luck everyone

Thanks (1)
avatar
21st Feb 2019 14:43

This reminds me of when they said everyone must have a full audit - once the Government realised what a heap of sh*t it was they scrapped it over night. I would urge you all NOT to sign anyone up to unite and show HMRC us small Accountants are fed you with doing their dirty work. This sort of initiative simply drives people out of the profession .

Thanks (6)
avatar
By SXGuy
21st Feb 2019 15:14

.

Thanks (0)
avatar
22nd Feb 2019 11:09

Just a minor point under MTD vat there is no 7 day extention. The return and payment has to be within 1 month of quarter end.

For me it is the mess and complication that HMRC appear to have made of this whole process. Business Tax Acoount is just another added burden

Thanks (2)
to pauljohnston
22nd Feb 2019 11:38

And that was something we didn't hear in Tuesday's HMRC webinar. Appalling that they didn't think it important enough to communicate such an important fact.

Thanks (0)
avatar
to pauljohnston
22nd Feb 2019 11:49

I would be interested in the evidence for this. I have not seen this as part of the pilot scheme. The payment dates in the pilot scheme have continued to be 1 week into the next month.

Thanks (0)
By Triggle
to pauljohnston
22nd Feb 2019 12:04

Not true - a month and seven days still applies:

https://www.icaew.com/technical/tax/making-tax-digital/mtd-guidance/mtd-...

Edit: If VAT paid electronically so ensure a new direct debit mandate is in place 15 days before the filing deadline.

Thanks (1)
22nd Feb 2019 11:12

MTD for VAT is going to happen.

Stop messing about and accept it. I had my reservations 6 months ago. However, it is here to stay now.

Whether you struggle now or in 3 months, you will still have to deal with the same matters.

HOWEVER, it will not be going away.

I am not a fan of MTD especially for micro entities using Excel. Lots of my one man/woman businesses are on Excel. I do like it. It's very flexible, free or cheap and reliable. It is only going to increase costs to send the same 4 boxes for most clients (maximum of 9 boxes).

I've read so many articles (lots of good ones on AWeb) and watched videos. I was ready and dealt with everything. I had a few misunderstanding, but I've now filed 4 VAT returns under MTD, though Sage and Excel bridging software. I had the odd authorisation issue.

My advice; eat that frog and get on with it!

Thanks (1)
avatar
22nd Feb 2019 11:47

I signed up our practice for MTD for VAT at on 20th February and haven't yet been accepted by HMRC into the pilot. I want to sort our own registration, so I know what will be needed for each client. I am not talking about the Agent registration - I have already done that, but our individual VAT Registration. I don't understand why signing up is so time consuming. Why can't it all be immediate like it is with any online retailer? I don't get why you have to fill in your VAT Registration Date, Box 5 from Last VAT Return and VAT Post Code, when they know all this already. HMRC will argue it is for ID purposes, but all they need is the VAT number to match it with their records. No one is going to register unless they really have to and the opportunity to commit fraud is non existent. I will have to look out this information for each client and talk them through registering, because most won't have this information to hand. Verifying an email address is part of the process and this is all most online services ask for. It should be enter VAT number, Verify email address - job done.

Thanks (1)
avatar
to raybackler
22nd Feb 2019 12:31

Totally agree - HMRC think we have all the time in the world to just sit and comply with their demands. I would email the MTD department with all your concerns . I have 20 clients to shift from manual to computer records within roughly a month and 17 of those clients do their own VAT.
When I told them they think im touting for business !

Thanks (0)
avatar
25th Feb 2019 09:03

Signed up for my ASA last week - relatively painless but I am not sure what I do next! Even HMRC are now saying (I paraphrase) "for God's sake don't do anything with MTD until you have filed your clients' last VAT returns under the old system"

Jut imagine how boring life would be if we didn't have all this to keep us entertained...

Thanks (0)
26th Feb 2019 14:44

Re ASA and linking clients. What happens with new clients taken on after the linking has occurred? Do they automatically appear in the ASA or do they have to be linked afterwards? It's already a pain with SA having to log in and allocate them to ourselves, something that was automatic until a few months ago.

Thanks (1)
avatar
to kevinringer
26th Feb 2019 16:51

There is a process being developed which enables an online link to be established between clients and agents. In the mean time, however, I would not expect the fact that a client is signed up for MTD to cause them go onto an ASA. (nor would I expect that to occur at a later stage)

Thanks (1)
avatar
27th Feb 2019 15:49

I've got my ASA. I had one client who, off their own back, signed up last month. It didn't go well!
I will be signing people up as soon as their previous period is done and dusted to make sure that I get the authorisation codes in good time but certainly won't be signing them up to file any returns before I have to.

Thanks (1)
to bendybod
27th Feb 2019 15:52

bendybod wrote:

I've got my ASA. I had one client who, off their own back, signed up last month. It didn't go well!

Bat, not back. It's a cricketing allusion.

Just saying, like.

Thanks (0)
Share this content