HMRC sends 17,000 penalty letters in error
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John Stokdyk sadly passed away in June 2023. He had been with the site since 1999, rising from news editor to editor in chief, global editor and head of insight. As a roving editor, he investigated the profession's use of technology around the world. He devoted his spare time to technology history and an oddball collection of stringed...
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Incorrect Penalty Notices - Time Costs
"And also the time, costs and aggravation to agents who have to sort it out.”
Quantify the costs to your practice and charge HMRC accordingly. Tell them you cannot charge clients for the Revenue's errors. We have had similar problems in previous years and have twice used this method and been paid by HMRC without having to bill individual clients.
We have had several reports of it today both from agents and individuals. HMRC help is not helping.
HMRC sends 17,000 penalty letters in error
Typical excuse.. this is computer error.. who is the bright spark who wrote the computer programe???
We have had several clients who have received such letters.They have called us not in a very happy frame of mind and blame us for not sending their cheques on time, or expect us to sort it out for them.
There are a lot of ruffled feathers which need smoothing out.
Hm
Typical excuse.. this is computer error.. who is the bright spark who wrote the computer programe???
We have had several clients who have received such letters.They have called us not in a very happy frame of mind and blame us for not sending their cheques on time, or expect us to sort it out for them.
There are a lot of ruffled feathers which need smoothing out.
Why did you agree to forward client cheques to HMRC? Sounds to me like you're setting yourself up for trouble if you do forget to send them in. Tell the clients to call HMRC and pay by debit card so HMRC get charged a processing fee, its what I do...
Typical Excuse
some of those clients are elderly are rely on us their advisers to assist them in meeting their tax obligations by filing their returns and sending the cheque to the collector in a timely manner. Not every body has accessed to internet or phone banking...
@ ShirleyM:Is there a penalty?A="Misconduct in Public Office"...
Lack of care springs to mind!
Hi ShirleyM! RE your Q:Is there a penalty? My answer is that maybe a potential class action regarding (1) an alleged common law offence of "Misconduct in Public Office" and/or (2) action under the "Protection from Harassment Act 1997" etc, might be fruitful!
May I suggest a look at the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) website for details, and for further consideration?
As Konokpaeva bravely just wrote of earlier years: "In those days had I not properly accounted for moneys received on the very day of receipt not only would I have been disciplined but had my error(s) resulted in execution of legal process - arrest, imprisonment or seizure of property - then I would have lost my job and may have faced legal action.
With this in mind why aren't the nameless ones in HMRC held accountable for errors" in a 17,000 tax payer - AND apparently already PAID - "customer" common law action for "Misconduct in Public Office" and/or for concomitant wrong/unjustified harassment, e.g. under the "Protection from Harassment Act 1997" etc ?
Petition the Police, perhaps?
[BTW: HMRC tax policy IR35 hint: IF "something like my suggested additional 'VAT R T & 366 days etc' wise words" were to be added to ITEPA'03 s 54(1) Step 1, THEN my time could be taken up with other/productive matters as I'd "be on the job" elsewhere]
Reasonable excuse?
This is particularly galling when you see some of the penalty cases that HMRC have taken as far as the Tribunal. When it's their mistake, it's a "known issue" or a computer malfunction.
HMRC call backs
Even in urgent cases the call backs are now extended to 5 working days. Does anyone know how to get round this unacceptable delay?
WILL THEY WRITE TO TAX PAYERS
Will they now write to those 17000 tax payers in a prompt manner and apologise?
Double payments?
If some unsuspecting client gets the reminder and pays the tax again, I wonder if HMRC will still say that they can't repay the tax overpaid until 30 days have elapsed?
SA Penalty
We too have had the same problem with afew of our clients!
We are now getting late filing penalties for clients who seem to have duplicate SA references!
We call the HMRC helpline who require us to write in to explain this. I dont understand why they cannot check for themselves on their system when we call and rectify the problem there and then. It just adds to the beauracracy!!!!!!!!!
argggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh
Strange how all of the 'errors' fall in HMRC favour, one would expect a reasonable proportion would fall the other way. A known issue since Decemeber has only been addressed because a national newspaper has exposed it.
Penalty notices
We have had a few and all those I have looked at so far are wrong.
Duplicate references seem to be the main issue and HMRC are not helpful as when we phone up they can't talk to us about the duplicate UTR reference as they do not hold a 64-8 (of course they don't it is a duplicate reference we know nothing about so there won't be a 64-8).
Incomplete explanation.
The explanation for the error is obviously incomplete and therefore the scale may be underestimated. One of our clients received the letter whne he was over £300 in credit. The last payment he made was on 3 August 2011, which was a second payment on account that proved to be more than adequate to cover all January liabilities.
The Agents' Helpline claimed not even know the criteria for sending these letters and could not issue an apolgy to the client.
As with other responders the client's initial reaction was that we may have advised him wrongly that he had no payment to make in January.
SA Pentalty received
At the weekend my wife received a penalty letter for not sending her Tax Return in time. She had in fact completed it online on 3rd January
and was convinced that it had been submitted as she got a submission receipt numbber detailed on the form she had downloaded
to her computer. When she printed the 10 page form, it was only then that she noticed on page 1 that it stated that it had not been submitted. She immediately wrote to them to appeal. I would assume that a receipt number issued would only be issued once actually received. We await HMRC response.
Not just self assessment
I had a client who set up a new company and registered a PAYE scheme on 14th April. They sent out a penalty notice for not filing a P35 for the previous 5th April when no notice to file a P35 had been issued.
Maybe ...
We should send all these incorrect penalty notices to the fraud office ... or maybe to this place ....
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingMoney/KeepingYourMoneySecure/DG_10035798
I wonder what the outcome would be?
HMRC final reminder letter errors.
As a young man I was a civil servant. In those days had I not properly accounted for moneys received on the very day of receipt not only would I have been disciplined but had my error(s) resulted in execution of legal process - arrest, imprisonment or seizure of property - then I would have lost my job and may have faced legal action. With this in mind why aren't the nameless ones in HMRC held accountable for errors? Is it just that the taxation system which is so much influenced by politics has become an unmanageable uncontrollable colossus?
Penalty errors
We appealed yesterday against a partnership penalty (2 partners). The return was filed in December and we quoted the IR mark, and requested that they explain their error. Fat chance of that.