VAT MOSS forces Ghost out of EU
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I can feel his pain
My only advise is wait for give few month until referendum; this rubbish is on the cusp of thrown out. I can certainly feel the pain, where instead of focusing on business these people are doing HMRC job...
Silly comments
Why does O'Nolan think he escapes VAT MOSS just because the organization is moved outside the EU? Sure, if the organization does not sell to EU citizens then there is no problem - but if that's true there never was a problem. If O'Nolan sells to EU citizens then he has to charge and collect VAT wherever the organization is based.
We created a system for selling our digital products and supporting the new VAT arrangements ahead of the January 2015 start date and have since provided the software to nearly 400 small EU and non-EU businesses that sell digital products in some form. You can whinge and whine about the law all you like but its not going to change without the agreement of all member states - and we know how likely that is. So isn't it best to get on with meeting the legal obligations not actively evading them? How does that help stakeholders of the organization?
And I absolutely don't recognize the characterization of HMRC. Maybe I'm just lucky but whenever I've called, the help has been great. If the first person has been unable to help they've arranged for me to speak to a colleague or call back. Perhaps now I've written these comments my experience will be dreadful. But maybe, just maybe, O'Nolan has an attitude problem.
I suppose the reason
Why does O'Nolan think he escapes VAT MOSS just because the organization is moved outside the EU? Sure, if the organization does not sell to EU citizens then there is no problem - but if that's true there never was a problem. If O'Nolan sells to EU citizens then he has to charge and collect VAT wherever the organization is based.
I suppose the reason is that if you have moved outside of the EU then there is little interest in anyone enforcing the EU's laws.
It is rather naïve of the EU to believe that businesses operating outside of their territory will slavishly follow their complex and bureaucratic rules, especially when the vast majority of affected businesses within the EU choose to ignore those same rules.
1.5 out of 10 service
HMRC is in my last official evaluation a 1.5 out of 10 tax service, down from 3 out of 10 in 2009. So O'Nolan is right about that in my view.
However, that also provides opportunities as well as hassles. I have not dealt with VAT MOSS but I'd certainly have explored the possibility of filing any old credible drivel to get a tick in the box, and seeing what then happened.
That's got to be better than what has actually taken place.
Oh dear...
As I posted on Facebook Ghost will not be helped by leaving the EU - if there are EU sales, of any amount, then they will still have to either register in each country or elect to use the Non-union MOSS scheme. It should be borne in mind that this problem is spreading to other countries in line with the G20/OECD BEPS project - so Norway and Iceland have introduced the same rule. They are not part of the EU, so not part of MOSS but are obliged to operate the rules because of their membership of the EEA, the European Economic Area, which we would still be a member of if we leave the EU I'd guess. At least there is a de minimis limit of $6,000 and $7,000 respectively. Switzerland is in the same position but has a much higher threshold of $100,000. Internationally they have been joined by Ghana, Angola, South Africa, Kenya, Madagaskar, Korea, Japan and even Singapore (!) although they seem to have the highest de minimis. Other countries which are considering this include Australia, New Zealand, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Turkey, Israel and Canada. The problem is inescapable and where there is no de minimis limit it is intolerable for small businesses.
Leaving the EU as a country doesn't help either. It is interesting that HMRC are "de-register(ing) 3,000 small businesses from the VAT MOSS system, treating them as ‘hobbyists’ rather than businesses in line with recent guidance. Bear in mind that the total number of businesses registered in the whole of the EU to operate under MOSS is rumoured to by 12,000 this would indicate 25% of those currently registered are small enough to be considered hobbies BUT... this does not help because any of these hobbies can still be investigated directly by any of the countries into which they sell and remember there is NO de minimis in any country of the EU unless you have a physical presence there.
I await with interest Ghost's deliberations in due course but I can't see that what they are doing will help them in the slightest.