AccountingWEB Member Update Number 4
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I just have one question - why wasn't this testing done before? I have never seen another site go up in this manner.
I just have one question - why wasn't this testing done before? I have never seen another site go up in this manner.
Very fair comment, from what I can see?
Sorry to appear facetious Ben but, reading between the lines, while Aweb is "iterating", the members on here are simply (very frustrated) guinea pigs?
Sorry to appear facetious Ben but, reading between the lines, while Aweb is "iterating", the members on here are simply (very frustrated) guinea pigs?
C'mon, be fair, Microsoft do it all the time with their operating systems and also charge you for the privilege.
I don't understand all the "building it how you want" stuff. It was how people wanted, it worked. Now it is a not very viable product, because it is user unfriendly.
The forward moving road map seems to involve people not coming here and engaging as much.
I got over the sadness now.
I come in, click about, cant find things, its all too orange and it makes me think of easy jet.
The threads cant be read, it jumps, its all too sticky and clunky.
If someone was minded to they could make a website that worked, and invite the previous contributors to it and just get going again. It would take a while to get off the ground, but if it worked, it would take off.
Not for big bucks or to be a business, but in the spirit of filling a gap that AWeb just created with this new direction they have gone in.
There is a need for what AWeb used to host, and now it doesn't host it, invariably that need will spring up somewhere else where it is hostable.
MySpace didn't listen...
Look what happened to them.
Websites can die out very fast.
OK. Just wrote a long post about how ridiculous these claims are, and it has been blocked without any explanation. I'm done with this!
Ben its good for you to finally admit you have made a cowboy job on the site and are treating your users with contempt by putting in a draft site and then developing it "from feedback".
The fact that this approach may be "common" does not excuse the deeply unprofessional nature of this, making your users go through the pain barrier of dealing with a half arsed site without proper thought or testing is quite insulting.
Do remember your audience. We are professionals in our own right, and I don't know the average age but I am mid 40's and one of the younger members.
I should add as you posted at the same time as me (but I cant of course edit my post. DOH. , I don't buy for a minute you would have needed a bunch of focus groups and a 2 year development plan to do the basic stuff right , that ought to have been immediately apparent to you the basic tedious flaws, such as it being too bloody big on a desktop and the ability to edit a post.
That is just lazy implementation which ought to have been dealt with at the design phase. Assuming there was one.
Hello Ben
Once again, I am disappointed with Sift's message. You (Sift) is NOT listening. What Sift is doing is tinkering around the edges on a poorly thought out site both in design and use.
Sift knows what the users want. A workable and a site that attracts other accountants. State of things as they stand, the great and the good contributors have jumped ship.
Please do not say we are listening when all the evidence points to that you (Sift) are not. If you were, you would either go back to the old site or get rid of those ugly tiles for a start. Who the hell approved the tile layout? At least provide use some detailed information about user feedback before the mighty Sift went for the Titanic option.
What would it take for Sift to LISTEN?
But, FT, I think in fact that Sift are making improvements. As in any project, you have to start from where you are. Over the last week, I have felt the site getting a bit more of it's community feel back - I am still optimistic - and we are getting updated etc.
Tom, the problem are those damn tiles. They make the site look ugly and detract from the usefulness of the site.
My reading of it is that the tiles are staying. So Sift is starting at the wrong place. It needs to get rid of the tiles. Then I would be as optimistic as you are.
After this total debacle and Sift refusal to budge over those damn tiles(!) my loyalty to Sift no longer extends as far as yours.
Why did Sift not create a Beta site and invite its membership for feedback ? Also, there was so much negative feedback about the American site. All ignored and Sift listens! Come on Ben!
I had a look at the Guardian and the Telegraph sites, sadly, I can see where Sift is heading. Terrible news for me, they look similar to this site after their improvements. What is it about tiles?
I will not waste my breath commenting on updates. No significant change will take place. Tiles are staying, that seems to be in thing.
OK, some thoughts.
Firstly, credit where it's due! Thanks Ben for explaining the approach that AWEB / Sift have taken to developing the new site via MVP (minimum viable product). If only politicians were as honest as Ben has been!
I can understand FirstTab's position - he hates tiles. But I think it is clear that whilst the tiles may change in size / colour / etc the basic idea of using tiles will remain for the forseeable future.
The underlying issue I suppose is whether the tiles make it easier or harder to find stuff you want on the site.
I still see people saying that they can't edit their posts. They can - but the menu to do that is now in a different place (it's via 'My account'). That's a bit like what Microsoft do from time to time with Excel menus. Basically you just have to find your way around the new menus.
It's a pity IMHO that in order to use bold, italic, underline etc or insert hyperlinks with useful names you now need to know & insert HTML code (in angled brackets) into your post - like {strong}{em}THIS{/em}{/strong} or {a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk" target="_blank"}link to BBC website home page{/a} - I have used curly brackets to make them visible in this example.
The big bugbear for me though is the 'infinite scrolling' & the way that only a handful of comments are initially visible. So if you scroll down you actually lose the thread completely! That's just awful IMHO. I have a bad feeling though that, like the tiles, we are stuck with this. Oh dear!
On the other hand the advanced search looks like it will be an improvement on the old AWEB site (in which search was useless - one just googled instead). And does anyone remember when comments were limited to something like 2,000 characters?? So let's not get too carried away with the good old days!
The planned changes all look to be actual improvements rather than just messing things about for the sake of it - can I put in a plea for ticks instead of hearts?
So for now I am hanging on in there . . .
RM
Would you like the walkthrough for editing posts?
Previously it was
1. Click edit
2. change words.
3. Click "post reply".
Now it is,
1. Scroll up to top of screen and click your namep\
2. On that screen scroll down and select Answer to Qs, from the left.
3. Locate post and click to edit.
4. Then drag the reply box to a bigger size.
5. Change words
6. Click "post reply"
7. It takes you to top of thread reply is in.
8. Scroll down to replies and it will bounce you down to next thread.
9. Scroll back up
10. click to see more comments
11. scroll down to post you just edited.
There is so much more clicking and scrolling and fiddling around all over, in every aspect of the site.
I wont be going through the 11 step rigmorale of editing out the p/ that is planted in my post.
Didn't notice that when writing, but hey, nothing looks as good as it did on AWeb these days, so no matter.
Here's my alternative plan Ben if Sift want more traffic for less cost:
1. Junk the drivelly new site.
2. Go back to the old one.
3. Ask regular users for suggestions for improvements.
4. Implement the best ones.
Result = more users at less cost, how hard can it be?
Sift will not admit to the users that they have messed up because it will be seen has a criticism of their bosses. They'll keep blundering their way through until the site folds completely. There's nothing like a bunch of people scared for their jobs to deny reality.
Do you think that is what Sift want people to do? They can say that there's a lot more page views. Pity about the users leaving in droves or at least coming to the site a lot less.
I used to come to the site about 5 or 10 time a day but now it maybe once a week. I don't post many questions or look at many of the questions because it's just so much hassle.
Update Number 4 - says it all....answer the questions you want to and answers the ones you don't with a response to a question you haven't been asked.
After 4 updates any answers now at least looks like a long lost distant relation of the old version (as compared to a nobody in the first version).
I trust the 'numbers' reflect the absolute [***] that has been made of this site change. But lets hope you hit your target audience....which presumably are the ones who add comments to MSN stories and BBC headlines....
Wait till the next update. Ben's response "approved" by Sift's hierarchy.
Once again, Ben will respond to questions that drives Sift's message - we ain't changing! "Please keep the feedback coming we do listen but are very selective who we listen to! "