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My baby is leaving!

28th Apr 2015
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As we were packing up and leaving our office for the day, my employee gave me the bad news. He said that he has a job offer and he is very likely to accept it! I could not help but show my disappointment. I wish I was cool about it. It was my body language that gave so much away.

He joined me as an intern without any office experience. I trained him to the extent he has now become a sought after employee.

He told me the salary he is offered. It is excellent. I will give it further thought, but it is unlikely I will be able to match the offer.

I was thinking  finally we are settling down. My employee took over most of the day to day from me, leaving me the space on business building activities. Will it now be me doing the day to day? I wonder if I will be able to?

May be I should take on another intern and start all again? I do enjoy training ACCA finalists. This will distract me from business building activities.

I will speak to my mentee and look into what sort of package she is looking for, If within my budget, she would be a suitable replacement.

I do not need all this. I will give it some thought and get further details of my employee’s package tomorrow. May be come up with something? 

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Replies (13)

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By mrme89
29th Apr 2015 09:49

If that is that salary offered, someone obviously thinks they are worth that.

 

You taking over the day to day to work might save you money short-term but will hinder your plans for growths. The same can be said for taking on another intern - it will take up a lot of your time to train them.

 

You need to establish what your employee wants. Is it just money? If so, and you match the salary offered, they will just try and hold you to ransom once another opportunity comes along.

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By Rachael White
29th Apr 2015 15:47

Random thoughts on this, but if you think the employee is really valuable to you, then are they not perhaps worth the salary?

For example, if you have spent a lot of time and effort training someone up and they have enabled you to achieve certain results because of that, how can you be so sure you'll find someone just as good again?

But perhaps it's not just money they are after, as you said. 

Good luck! 

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By FirstTab
29th Apr 2015 17:33

He is going

Thank you for your comments mrme and Rachael. 

My employee and I  had a long discussion today to see if there is anything that could be done.

He has an offer from a bigger practice where he will be exposed to a different culture and a different way of working. Understandably he want to see what it is like to work in a bigger practice. In addition, I just cannot match the package. I wish I could. 

We will keep in touch. I have a strong feeling he will be back working with me. It is just a matter of time.We get on too well. 

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By B Roberts
30th Apr 2015 10:59

Employee ?
Hi FT,

I won't get political on this, but the person you are referring to is not an "employee" in the traditional sense - I am of course making the assumption that the intern has not been paid for their work ?

Isn't this the quid pro quo of such an arrangement ?

The intern gets some work experience and in return you get "free labour" - surely this would be a short term agreement from the outset as few people could work forever without any pay?

This could possibly work with the lower level repetitive tasks that a new person could be quickly trained up to do, however I am not sure that an intern could ever be fully relied upon as part of a business model for growth as their presence will only be temporary.

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By cheekychappy
30th Apr 2015 14:51

After reading some of your previous blogs, it may come as shock for some of your clients as they won't know who you are. This is one of the downfalls of letting your staff do all the day to day work.

Interns - These should be used to help them gain experience. Replacing someone who was a paid employee with an intern is nothing but abuse. You don't say, but I get the impression you don't have any plans to promote your other intern to a paid position? Despicable.

 

 

 

 

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By Sheepy306
01st May 2015 14:12

Market forces

I don't entirely understand the negative comments made against using unpaid interns, as I understand it they are voluntarily choosing to work in exchange for gaining valuable experience, some mentoring and advice, and presumably this will stand them in good stead when they start work elsewhere or if FT chooses to offer them employment. In a competitive job market, that experience within a small practice can be extremely useful. I assume that if they didn't think it was worth their while then they would either sit at home, look for work elsewhere, or would be badgering FT for a paid position.

The downside for FT of course is that he has no leverage or power over those interns, they can leave at any time, they can choose not to turn up, they can produce poor quality work, and they will require lots of training and supervision. If FT chooses to let them deal with the client directly then I would agree that he risks losing a client or a client not knowing who he is (although I understand that FT does all initial sign-up and meetings with the client so they must like him). I used to be a treasurer of an arts charity, we used volunteers for a lot of the creative aspects, some of the non-creative volunteers would help with the admin. They were often unreliable but we accepted that when people are working for free then you can't really dictate too much to them (certainly when you're a small charity and need the help). We would have loved to have paid our volunteers, but the economic reality was that it wasn't possible, anyway they were more than happy being volunteers and being bought sandwiches and treated nicely etc. I suspect FT's position isn't too dissimilar.

Why should the fact that the interns aren't getting paid upset other people? The interns are happy, FT is happy, it works for both of them. Would calling them apprentices and paying them a measly £2.73 per hour make everyone happy? Or paying a 16 year old £3.79 make any difference? Would you be equally upset if FT was paying an ACCA trainee £10k per annum instead of say £20k? It happens all the time but not everyone blog's about it or is so open about it.

I imagine that at some point another intern will be offered a job or will move on, FT will then be faced with the decision as to whether he can financially afford to offer them a permanent employment contract, or whether he even wants to. Either way, FT and the intern have benefitted from the current arrangement.

I don't understand how a voluntary arrangement can be regarded as 'despicable' or why someone should be forced to offer a contract to someone that neither party is necessarily looking for, and as FT has already said, that he cant' justify financially.

Just to clarify, FT's model isn't one that I would ever adopt, my approach is completely the opposite, I would much rather have few clients, 100% contact and no staff, the downside to my approach is that I will probably never be able to 'sell' my client portfolio as it is built entirely on personal relationships. Whereas FT probably will be able to sell his client book.

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By FirstTab
30th Apr 2015 17:14

Intern turned employee

Hi B Roberts, the person leaving started as an intern who has turned into an employee. 

 

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By cheekychappy
01st May 2015 13:01

FirstTab

You forgot to reply to me. Don't worry, I accept your apology.

I'll ask once more. Do you have any plans to promote your other intern to a paid position?

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bike
By FirstTab
01st May 2015 16:21

Thank you for taking the time

Thank you sheepy306, really well put.

You said it far better than I could.  

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By cheekychappy
01st May 2015 18:48

Sheepy, you are confused, bless you. 

 

We are not talking about an art charity, we are talking about a commercial venture.

 

Did you know that First Tab is probably breaking the law? Interns are not entitled to minimum wage if they are shadowing (no direct work, just observing). Conducting client work would not be classed as shadowing, would it?

Voluntary workers are not entitled to the minimum wage if they don't get paid (reimbursement of some expenses is ok) and working for a charity or voluntary organisation. This does not extend to business owners looking for a cheap workforce. 

Taking advantage of an uncertain job market is no excuse.

 

So, is it despicable? In my opinion, yes, it is. But then, I have morals. 

 

If I was Mr Tab, I would be speaking to an employment law specialist to cover my fat ass[***]. 

 

 

 

 

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By Sheepy306
01st May 2015 18:53

Drawing parallels

cheekychappy wrote:

Sheepy, you are confused, bless you. 

 

We are not talking about an art charity, we are talking about a commercial venture.

 

Did you know that First Tab is probably breaking the law? Interns are not entitled to minimum wage if they are shadowing (no direct work, just observing). Conducting client work would not be classed as shadowing, would it?

Voluntary workers are not entitled to the minimum wage if they don't get paid (reimbursement of some expenses is ok) and working for a charity or voluntary organisation. This does not extend to business owners looking for a cheap workforce. 

Taking advantage of an uncertain job market is no excuse.

 

So, is it despicable? In my opinion, yes, it is. But then, I have morals. 

 

If I was Mr Tab, I would be speaking to an employment law specialist to cover my fat ass[***]. 

 

 

 

 

Morals? Well we can only take your word for it.

Manners and a helpful attitude ? It appears not.

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By MissAccounting
01st May 2015 19:48

Friends in high places

cheekychappy wrote:

Sheepy, you are confused, bless you. 

 

We are not talking about an art charity, we are talking about a commercial venture.

 

Did you know that First Tab is probably breaking the law? Interns are not entitled to minimum wage if they are shadowing (no direct work, just observing). Conducting client work would not be classed as shadowing, would it?

Voluntary workers are not entitled to the minimum wage if they don't get paid (reimbursement of some expenses is ok) and working for a charity or voluntary organisation. This does not extend to business owners looking for a cheap workforce. 

Taking advantage of an uncertain job market is no excuse.

 

So, is it despicable? In my opinion, yes, it is. But then, I have morals. 

 

If I was Mr Tab, I would be speaking to an employment law specialist to cover my fat ass[***]. 

 

 

You cant say anything like that against Firsty! 

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bike
By FirstTab
01st May 2015 21:45

Same Rules

I am subject to the same Sift rules as any other member. Even before my ban, some of my peers were going on about my alleged favorable treatment by Sift. This has been a long term on going issue.

I did not like it when I was moderated since the moderation was not in my favour. If I was given a favorable treatment, I would have not received emails from moderator(s) about breach of rules and for me to stop certain actions. 

Can this be put to rest now. It is getting tiresome. 

 

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