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Bookkeepers summit
Richard Hattersley

Bookkeepers Summit: Bookkeepers are the new accountants

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4th Oct 2016
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The Institute of Certified Bookkeepers (ICB) held its seventh annual summit in the QEII centre over the course of two days. The second day featured talks by CEO Garry Carter, Sage’s EVP Jennifer Warawa, Mark Wickersham and Receipt Bank’s Michael Wood, with many of the speakers assessing the role bookkeepers will play in HMRC’s Making Tax Digital plans.

Bookkeepers are tomorrow’s accountants

ICB CEO Garry Carter opened the second day of the summit by addressing the Making Tax Digital changes, and in particular comments made on AccountingWEB by ICPA’s Tony Margaritelli.

In what seemed to be a riposte to Margaritelli’s assertion that “accountants are the new bookkeepers” in the Making Tax Digital aftermath, Carter countered that, in fact, “Bookkeepers are tomorrow’s accountants.”

Rather than spread gloom about the government’s digital plans, Carter was optimistic about the opportunity it presents. Speaking about the rapid change hitting the profession, Carter said: “Huge advances in IT, cloud technology, tax digitalisation and even artificial intelligence are coming together into a perfect storm that will shake the profession to their very foundations.”

But Carter insisted that these changes will only cause the role of the bookkeeper to get “bigger and more necessary”. He continued, “Things are changing and we are at the forefront of it.”

He emphasised bookkeepers’ position as a trusted advisor, and urged them to ride the digital wave; a theme which featured heavily throughout the day.

Garry Carter

Carter explained how the clients who used to turn up with the classic shoebox full of receipts will still need a bookkeeper. “Some of you have said clients come with their iWatch and said where have my accounts gone; can you help? These people will always be here.”

They’re going to look at these figures but are going to need you to tell them what it’s about.

“Clients who are given more information want even more back,” he said. “They’re going to look at these figures but are going to need you to tell them what it’s about.”  

Enthusing members with the positivity to embrace MTD, Carter dismissed the idea that bookkeepers are going away. “We’re bookkeepers; we’ve had a role for centuries.”

Jennifer Warawa: Become indispensable

Carter’s words fed into Sage EVP Jennifer Warawa’s keynote. Last year Warawa received unanimous praise from the ICB members for her speech, and going by this year, it’s easy to see why; her slick oratory combined with a Tony Robbins-like motivational message captivated the audience.

Addressing the fear held by some about how the profession can remain relevant when technology threatens their job, Warawa said: “Think about how you can become indispensable. How can you be that person your clients can’t live without?”

With technology automating and replacing manual data input work, Warawa explained that clients will look to bookkeepers to be their trusted advisor to embrace change, and through this, bookkeepers will become integrated into their clients’ business.

To do this, Warawa advised the ICB delegates to “always be customer driven” and to leverage technology to work for them, their clients and their practice.

Think about how you can become indispensable. How can you be that person your clients can’t live without?

For example, rather than meeting a client once a year to go over their accounts, Warawa encouraged bookkeepers to go beyond being relevant and to wield automated data to explain to your small business client what happened today and how they can change that.

Jennifer Warawa

Warawa summed up the theme of the conference by quoting Chris Gaborit, managing director and co-founder of the Learning Factory, who said: “Hold the mindset that change provides opportunity.”

Michael Wood: Tax in a digitalised world

Receipt Bank’s co-founder Michael Wood echoed the opportunity Making Tax Digital and technology will provide to bookkeepers in becoming a trusted advisor.

During his session, Wood outlined why this digitalisation is happening, placing it in a global perspective, and how bookkeepers can harness the information to deliver valuable KPIs for their clients.

Wood recounted a story he heard about retailing Svengali Phillip Green. Every morning Green arrived at his desk he would have details of what every TopShop sold and which lines were selling. “This is something every small business will have access to – without costing millions; the leading indicators they should be looking at.”

Wood compared the evolving role of the bookkeeper to how supermarket customers have transitioned from a weekly shop to regular basket shops. “Similar in bookkeeping, instead of the annual discussion, it’s going to be a weekly or even daily discussion with clients” he explained, rather than once a month or once a quarter.

Michael Wood

The move from annual bookkeeping to daily will help you become so much more intimately involved with their data

“The move from annual bookkeeping to daily will help you become so much more intimately involved with their data,” said Wood. “This is why it is important that you are assisting and not holding the client back."

Later Intuit's Bobby Chadha, flanked by Intuit Europe's new VP Dominic Allon, boiled the digitalisation changes down to three sentences: "Less data entry. More strategic advisors. Changing the lives of our clients."

Chadha concluded: “If I can spend less time doing the things that can be automated, that gives me more time doing the things that helps clients.”

Look out for video interviews with Garry Carter, Michael Wood, Mark Wickersham and more conducted at the ICB event, although with more in-depth analysis of some of the sessions.  

Were you at the ICB Summit? What did you make of the event? Did you leave with the desired positive attitude to embrace technology change and MTD?

Replies (35)

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
04th Oct 2016 10:55

Bookkeepers are bookkeepers. Accountants are accountants. Both have skills that are valuable to businesses. Neither does their clients any good claiming they can replace the other.

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Replying to stepurhan:
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By Ruth Wiseman
06th Oct 2016 14:31

I agree that the two roles are very different. It is the qualification your operate under that enables you to decide what services you offer. The accountancy Practises I work alongside with have not intention of doing my role and likewise. There is a healthy respect that we offer compatible services to our clients that enable date entry through to full statutory audit. I believe we must respect the professions, of which Payroll and Pensions are also specialists. That is what makes the Accountancy Profession so diverse and the skills and people within the industry able to support one another rather than attempt to be roles we cannot be. Thanks Ruth

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By RobertD
04th Oct 2016 11:15

Yes, ask a bookkeeper about accounting standards and they'll have the same blank expression as the MTD HMRC spin doctors.

Seriously

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By Duhamel
04th Oct 2016 11:53

What's this trusted advisor rubbish?

I don't mean to be derogatory towards bookkeepers, but I'm genuinely mystified - the bookkeepers I know don't offer any advice at all.

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By MM Bookkeeping Services
04th Oct 2016 12:31

I am a bookkeeper and a member of ICB but this does not mean I agree with all it says!
Yes I am qualified to complete tax returns BUT I never take on work I cannot do.
Luckily, I have a local accountancy practice that I can refer clients to if they require something outwith my remit.
ICB states members should not give tax advice and I always make clients aware of this.
Having said all that I know there are bookkeepers who do try to do the job of accountants and this is something that really annoys me as it gives the profession of bookkeepers a bad name and does not help the client with their tax affairs.
There, rant over!

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Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
04th Oct 2016 15:15

I was at the event yesterday and it was excellent. The statement about bookkeepers been the new accountants was clearly tongue and cheek as in be proud to be a bookkeeper. I found Tony,s comments quite insulting so it was just a dig and jibe back. Their was plenty of talk about bookkeepers and accountants working together. Bookkeepers do give business advise maybe not about tax , and they have every right to do so . accountants who are not qualified do and claim it is experience . Well plenty of the bookkkepers are also very experienced like myself . Icb has a strict code of conduct that you are not allowed to take on work that you not qualified to do are capable of. But I object to been told we should not give general business advise which is completely different to giving tax advice .

The whole event was really good and it was lovely to meet you yesterday Richard

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Replying to sarah douglas:
By The Highlander
04th Oct 2016 13:05

I agree, Tony's comment regarding accountants being the new bookkeepers was ill thought out and derogatory. It's very disappointing when our representatives choose to make these comments.

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Replying to sarah douglas:
Richard Hattersley
By Richard Hattersley
04th Oct 2016 13:27

Hi Sarah, glad you had a nice time and it was nice to catch up. How was the evening meal?

I found the event to be a really positive and had such a welcoming atmosphere.

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Replying to Richard Hattersley:
Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
04th Oct 2016 14:09

Hi Richard.
The evening meal was great, nice and chilled and relaxed their was quiz, the steak was beautiful and quite a few went out later. I agree it was a really positive day and very welcoming. Hopefully you can make the meal the next time.

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Headshot of a middle aged lady with shoulder length dark hair
By Claire Owen-Jones
04th Oct 2016 12:51

I also believe that the role of accountant and bookkeeper is very different and I don't understand this need for one to replace the other. Surely it's better for accountants to focus on being great accountants and bookkeepers, great bookkeepers and strong partnerships being formed between the two?

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By The Highlander
04th Oct 2016 12:56

Since the accounting professional bodies have failed to protect the title accountant I guess anyone, including my window cleaner, can call themselves one.

You can dress like a lion, roar like a lion and make people call you a lion, however it doesn't make you a lion.

I should add that all the bookkeepers who I have dealings with are both excellent at their job and would never contemplate trying to pass themselves off as an accountant. Perhaps Gary Carter should do a better job representing them.

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Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
04th Oct 2016 13:04

Garry Carter does a very good job representing his members. a good bookkeeper does not try to pass themselves off as a accountant. But I could also say they are plenty of accountants who claim to be qualified by experience and have never sat a exam but that's okay for them to lecture bookkeepers.

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By adam.arca
04th Oct 2016 13:09

Personally, I've never felt the need to look down on bookkeepers: some are appalling but many do an excellent job often with demanding clients and incomplete information.

That said, the reason there is a distinction between bookkeepers and accountants is because they are in fact two different jobs and no amount of MTD is going to change that.

As for becoming a "trusted advisor" (give me strength, another glib phrase from the spin industry) dream on: that would make them....erm....accountants.

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Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
04th Oct 2016 13:17

At the bookkeepers panel yesterday it was clearly stated by everyone on it that when a good bookkeeper and good accountant work with each other and respect each other's work that is best result for the client. Garry held that discussion unfortunately that has not been reported only because it was a big event on 3 floors and Richard could not be at all places as he was completing interviews .

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Adrian Pearson
By Adrian Pearson
04th Oct 2016 13:31

Genuine question to any ICB members reading this: How many bookkeepers do you believe could assemble an accurate, balanced profit and loss and balance sheet from manual, incomplete records WITHOUT using accounting software?

So, just using pen and paper and working from a cashbook, sales and purchase daybooks, sales and purchase ledgers and manual payroll records.

I ask because it takes training, experience and a proper understanding of debits and credits to do so. Not just the ability to enter data into the correct software slots.

If I were to appoint a bookkeeper as my trusted advisor on my accounts, I would want to be sure they understood why accounting software treats transactions the way it does.

Hence my question, which is intended to educate me on the general level of fundamental accounting knowledge in the bookkeeping profession - not to cause offence.

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Replying to Adrian Pearson:
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By MM Bookkeeping Services
04th Oct 2016 13:38

Yes, I can as that is the way I was trained.
I quite agree that some 'bookkeepers' only know how to input data into software without realising where the double entry information lands up!
This is what worries me about MTD and HMRC expecting the plumber, joiner, hairdresser etc being able to do their own accounts as it is so easy! Yeah right!

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Replying to MM Bookkeeping Services:
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By jjswjjsw
05th Oct 2016 11:55

Like MM, yes I can as it was they way I was trained (IAB), I often return to pen and paper when I want to check something before posting or in trying to deciper another person's work.

Ultimately it comes down to client/bookkeeper/accountant relations needing to be good so all parties do their job well.

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Replying to jjswjjsw:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
05th Oct 2016 19:23

One could ask at times how many recently qualified accountants could complete a set of accounts from manual records etc, a fair few might struggle? How many these days can prepare a set of company accounts with notes from scratch without software to assist? I suspect without software I might struggle these days.

Given the training some will, upon qualification, have little actual experience, their training concentrating on say audit.

The ability to guddle with mountains of crap tends to evolve by doing rather than exams, and is a function of one's training experience.

Albeit years ago, in the 1980s I bumped into a former university classmate training with Price Waterhouse, we had both completed two years, he had yet to prepare a set of accounts and was on his way to Glasgow re the audit of a quoted plc. I, whilst with a reasonably sizeable national firm, trained in their Glasgow office (three partners) and had experienced a mix of work from tiny clients to subsidiaries of quoted companies, I had by then prepared a fair few accounts compared with his nil.

Labels do not matter, experience is far more important.

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Replying to Adrian Pearson:
Headshot of a middle aged lady with shoulder length dark hair
By Claire Owen-Jones
04th Oct 2016 15:26

I'll add my name to the list of ICB bookkeepers who understands debits and credits - with or without software. I still use the occasional T account when explaining transactions.

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Replying to Adrian Pearson:
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By sandradouglas
05th Oct 2016 13:27

To become an ICB Bookkeeper you have to pass exams in manual bookkeeping as well as computerised bookkeeping before you can become a full member; which is the minimum requirement to gain your practice licence.
No offence taken - it was a genuine question to find out what you do not know.

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Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
04th Oct 2016 14:24

Hi Adrian
I can as I studied it in school and college. I am 47 so I started out on manual. As the ICB Glasgow chair I would say 50 percent are capable of completing the skills you mention Adrian. As a branch chair part of role is to keep an eye on anyone pushing the boundaries as it gives all the bookkeepers in the area a bad reputation.

http://www.bookkeepers.org.uk/Study--Qualifications/Current-Qualifications Adrian you may be interested in this link.

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Replying to sarah douglas:
Adrian Pearson
By Adrian Pearson
04th Oct 2016 15:55

Thank you Sarah, and colleagues, above. I guess, nowadays, there will be some qualified accountants who could not complete the task I outlined without software to do the double-entry for them. Might be a generational thing, but it's important to preserve that fundamental knowledge.

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Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
04th Oct 2016 16:18

Totally agree Ardrian otherwise you have no idea what you are presenting to your client . You have to know your Debits and Credits

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By User deleted
04th Oct 2016 22:54

These ICPA non-quals need to wind their necks in big time.

I don't know how they have the brass neck to operate in a profession without professional qualifications - let alone then try to speak out on behalf of the profession on whose turf they squat.

The exams aren't THAT hard if you have a brain that's up to the job. Just sit them. Till then, shut up.

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Replying to User deleted:
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By In a Daze
05th Oct 2016 23:10

AnnAccountant wrote:

These ICPA non-quals need to wind their necks in big time.

I don't know how they have the brass neck to operate in a profession without professional qualifications - let alone then try to speak out on behalf of the profession on whose turf they squat.

The exams aren't THAT hard if you have a brain that's up to the job. Just sit them. Till then, shut up.


I did qualify through ACCA and was a member for 10 years however, membership had no benefits for me personally so i joined ICPA and resigned my ACCA membership.
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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
05th Oct 2016 00:12

@Adrian - you're right, there are plenty of accountants who have grown up on cloud software who wouldn't have a clue about how to prepare an incomplete records job.

I think it is a generational thing and its not just bookkeeping/accounting, its everything.

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
05th Oct 2016 00:16

I'm sorry but Michael Wood's comments about being in touch with clients weekly or even daily is a load of bull - he really needs to think before he speaks.

1. How on earth can you manage your workload if you contact clients daily.

2. How many clients would get fed up with you if you emailed/phoned every day rather than compiling all relevant information and updating the client on a monthly/quarterly basis.

Wake up...

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Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
05th Oct 2016 09:02

Hi
I agree daily would be too much however we have clients who do what to hear from us weekly and they pay for that service . So just as their are those clients who wound hate you to be in touch all the time, their are clients who love been in touch. The profession is changing and why does everything have to be black and white. Michael Wood had a good point . Their is plenty of business for all. If you don't believe it would suit your practice fair enough but it will others.

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By rememberscarborough
05th Oct 2016 10:37

Great back slapping but has any of them bothered to ask their clients what they want? Most small businesses just want to get on with their day to day business and having to stop what they're doing just to keep their financial expert "happy" is not going to improve the image of the our industry.

When an accountant/bookkeeper starts to believe they're more important than their client then they're doomed to fail...

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x
By rockallj
05th Oct 2016 13:36

I do not agree that bookkeepers are the new accountants.

I don't mean to be denigrate bookkeepers, but we are different in our services and knowledge. If anything the accountants' role is being downgraded by HMRC to just a bookkeeping role in the vast majority of cases for the smaller clients. It diminishes our role to frankly, a data input clerk position. Why did I spend 5 years at evening school for that?

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Replying to rockallj:
Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
05th Oct 2016 19:35

If you think bookkeepers are nothing more then data clerks then I think you need to keep update with the profession and changes a bit more.

Most bookkeeping practices will continue to work jointly with accountants who have respect for bookkeepers that do not see them just as data clerks .

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Replying to sarah douglas:
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By rockallj
05th Oct 2016 20:57

@ sarah Douglas.

I was actually suggesting that hmrc's mandatory introduction of MTD was reducing our work to data entry clerks, not what a bookkeeper's role is. I do a lot of bookkeeping myself as it is how I started 25 years ago teaching myself from a manual, and it is skilled work.

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Sarah Douglas - HouseTree Business Ltd
By sarah douglas
06th Oct 2016 08:14

Hi

That was the whole point of the summit was that you don't become a data entry clerk. I think their is a lot of doom and gloom about MTD but there are also positives. Sorry if I misunderstood your above comment .

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By mickeyparish
07th Oct 2016 12:07

The whole MTD thing is pie in the sky. We reckon we are pretty efficient but knowing how much money we REALLY made, rather than the fictional data in the computer, takes us at least 3 months at the end of each FY. The thought of doing that in real time appals me and would involve employing an army of book-keepers and stock- verifiers. We would actually close down if it ever come to pass.

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By North East Accountant
10th Oct 2016 09:31

Accountants are going to be doing the work that book-keepers have traditionally done but with MTD there will be tons of work for us all.

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