Accountants embrace bookkeeping to manage MTD
One of the less well documented aspects of the “MTD effect” is how it is encouraging accountants to bring bookkeeping in-house. John Stokdyk outlines how this trend is taking shape.
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Bringing the bookkeeping in house is all fine and dandy, but I think what's more important is improving efficiencies in bookkeeping.
This may be a controversial opinion to some, but running purchase ledgers for some small businesses just isn't worth the time it takes when at the year-end there's likely a couple of supplier statements outstanding that a year-end journal could take care of rather than constant work throughout the year. A re-think is needed, rather than the mentality of 'we've always done this'.
Shouldn't we also be prompting the clients to take care of their own bookkeeping where possible, giving an idea of added value of seeing their business performance throughout the year?
It's not only the processes, but also the software, we're all used to online software like Xero and QB.. or even Sage.. but sometimes the ability to make corrections to a client's bookkeeping entries can be tedious, personally I've used LimeBooks and it's a breath of fresh air, select the transactions you want to change, whether bank reconciled or VAT reconciled and mass update, job done. Also, ease of use for clients to use gets a big tick for me.
Can Limebooks accept automatic bank feeds? I'd be worried about using it if it only accepted downloaded CSV files . . . . . but if it could deal with automatic bank feeds it might be interesting.
There aren't bank feeds at the moment, however I believe there are plans for importing pdf statements soon, then at some point by the end of the year or start of next year bank feeds should be in progress/place.
Would the worry be the time taken to obtain the csv statement from the clients? In practice, the first time may be difficult for some, however there's a brief download guide to send clients to point them in the right direction. About 95% of our clients are ok with sending us the csv, but for those who aren't, to be honest I doubt they'd be able to set up bank feeds for us.
Yes, I'd definitely be worried about the hassle of getting files from clients. If/when this software begins allowing bankfeeds it'll become more interesting to me. It looks quite bare-bones (which I like!)
John, I think that you have misread the current scenario. Of course there are Accountancy practices that are geared up, have the latest technology etc. I go back to my original gripe that there are many practices and business out there that aren't that geared up and use high tech stuff. This is where MTD will fall on its backside. In house or out house bookkeepers will not make an iota of difference. QU is just not viable, especially when you do the costings. I am talking about those earning under £85k, which accounts for a lot of business, which you don't seem to have addressed.
All of my clients use cloud accounting software and they raise their own sales invoices. We take care of bank feeds, querying each month the transactions where more information is needed, so we can complete the bank reconciliation. We liaise with them over expenses, encouraging all transactions to be processed via the bank, if possible. On top of this we run monthly payrolls within the cloud software. Their limited company businesses are, therefore, already digital and extracting the quarterly data will be relatively easy. So I agree with johnjenkins, the issue is not about whether bookkeeping is done in house or not.
My issue is that about a quarter of my clients have a single buy-to-let property. The bookkeeping involved is minimal. The clients send me an annual summary for their self assessment tax returns. They are now going to be required to digitise what was already a simple, error free, exercise. This will be a shock to them and a complete waste of time and expense. I have explained to several clients that this is just around the corner, but can't grab their attention yet, because it detracts from their main business activities and is not important to them, for now. I despair at the stupidity of MTD for SA, when the existing SA system is fine. There are no benefits, only costs for my clients.
''.....One of the less well documented aspects of the 'MTD effect'.....'' I would argue is HMRC's communication to its 'customers'.
Clearly the article highlights a particular practice whereby in-house has proven beneficial as ''there was consequently no mess to sort out..'' But there will be many more practices who will have educated their clients in the first place to prevent any so called mess. And again proves that the only benefactor in Osborne's whim is the Revenue . { This remains to be seen in view of their general administrative decline }.
The article also poses the question ......''But who will look after those who are unable to cope.?''
I suspect Truss or Sunak will make it a priority to maintain the status quo for those under the VAT threshhold in view of the current economic climate , the sufferings of small businesses - and equally with one eye on the next General Election.
Firms are switching to inhouse book keeping for a very simple reason- it takes less time to do than trying to sort out the mess clients will make with auto entries and setting up VAT rates then applying the same VAT rate to train fares and hotel stays (as just one example).
As a recent example, it took me 4 hours to fix a client's entries (including removing most of the auto entry rules they had clicked through) that would have taken me less than 30 minutes to do in the first place.
This is partly the software companies' fault, as they claim in their adverts that their software will recognise everything and classify it correctly- leaving us to sort out the mess.
Trying to explain to clients that in 2024 they will be required to report their income from their one BTL quarterly using some software which will cost them £200 when they are already smashed by the mortgage interest deduction farce and on top of that if I'm to do it add another chunk to the fee..it's all going to turn into quite a mess.
Agree 100% with your 'reason' (your first para).
But, as per your final para, it isn't going to make it any more likely that clients shout 'yippee!' ... nor indeed that they will even try to play ball.
Mess is an understatement. Agents face the double whammy of some clients leaving (on the basis that the govt & software suppliers say we're superfluous) + the remainder being prepared to comply (but not to pay extra for doing so)!
Having dealt with HMRC for over 30years I can say, in all honesty, that they have never been so inept & inefficient. The complete travesty of MTD for VAT was hidden by HMRC, even to the Chief Officer to whom I requested my MP to contact to obtain an explanation as to why the new system (MTD) didn't work.Having eventually received a phone call from one of the Chief Officer's lackeys who spouted the official line but did not have a clue what he was talking about, I said goodbye. Thankfully I had actually managed to reach an HMRC Officer who knew what they were talking about, whilst I was on Holiday. MTD didn't work with Google because it automatically overrode MTD..... It worked fine with Bing ... On the basis that MTD ITSA is so far more reaching than MTD VAT I expect nothing more than a complete disaster, which will again be covered up by HMRC. Apparently HMRC have consulted SME's about MTD ITSA, and they are all so enthusiastic..... They obviously have not consulted the many and various Labour Only CIS Sub Contractors who, as we all know are keen to spend their out of work hours keeping digital records....... I can't help but wonder the real motivation for MTD ITSA. I think most of us practitioners can see it.
From day one we have done the bookkeeping for the majority of our clients. This suits me fine as I know it will be done correctly. Since moving to cloud accounting we have let most clients, where appropriate, raise their own sales invoices, but that's it. I would say it takes us less time to do the bookkeeping for a client than it does to sort out the mess where they insist on doing it themselves.
The problem is that automation is now creating a new bottleneck in the operation. Whereas previously the bookkeeping side of things was tediously slow its the accounts production and taxation end of things that is slowing down the operation.