Qualified as a Chatered Accountant with KPMG in Stoke in 1979 and as a Chatered Tax Advisor with KPMG in Manchester in 1981. Present firm since then. Started the insolvency side of the practice from scratch in 1983. Fromer Student Society and North staffs Branch President. Currently Hon Treasurer of the North Staffordshire Chamber of Commerce. [email protected]www.barringtons-online.comwww.barringtons-insolvency.com
John is absolutely correct. You will need to utilise a formal insolvency process, a Members Voluntary Liquidation, and you will need to use a licensed insolvency practitioner to deal with it.
Convoluted argument You start off trying to achieve Chartered status by using others, then when that is pointed out you attack on the qualified v experience argument and bring in client care, which was not part of your original argument and now it's down to children, other business interests and work/life balance. Forgive me for being cynical but how many excuses do you need for failing to complete your qualification, and then trying to get Chartered status for your firm despite you not being qualified - thank goodness for the little protection afforded to qualified accountants!
I do, and quite regularly for one, two or even four weeks at a time - BUT I always have my phone on and always ensure I have wifi available. I am in very regular contact with my office, reviewing all incoming and outgoing post on a daily basis (all scanned into Docusoft) - that's how I manage to take so many holidays - will the Court allow me that facility, I think not! So the question of holidays is, for me and many others I suspect, a totally irrelevant one.
Then I suggest you enter into a training contract and take and pass the examinations, and then subject yourself to the same level of fees, supervision and compliance that all qualified accountants have to do. That way you shouldn't have any problems with the structure you are trying to create.
Seek advice If you, or your "friend", want this to be done correctly, you, or rather they, MUST seek the advice of a licensed insolvency practitioner NOW. This has to be handled correctly or whoever is responsible, be they a named director or a shadow director, will face potentially serious consequences - credit card companies quite rightly come down very hard when or if they suspect fraud may be an issue. You need to deal with this NOW.
My deepest sympathy to you and I hope that you do eventually find a way to work through your problem, believe me there are ways. I am also a Chartered Accountant and a licensed insolvency practitioner, and some of the comments above do give cause for concern. If you do choose to go down the bankruptcy route, your shares will definitely form part of your assets and it is likely that a trustee would want to realise these, probably by way of a sale of the practice either to another practitioner or, post discharge, to you (if you were able to raise the finance). In addition do not, under any circumstances, get a "prepaid" card which you might use for "brucey bonuses" and which you fail to disclose to a trustee in bankruptcy - you are after all swearing a statement of affairs and don't want to commit perjury.
Take proper professional advice. Gill Hankey has been mentioned above at the Bankruptcy Advisory Service (tel 01482 633035). She is not an insolvency practitioner but does know an awful lot about the process and is an excellent place to start, she is also VERY reasonable.
Another option would be for you to talk to your local District Society liaison officer - have you tried that?
Finally how about selling your practice and doing a deal with your creditors, either through an informal arrangement if there are not many and they will do it or through a formal IVA - possibly to a practice who will then employ you.
Firstly let me declare an interest - I am an insolvency practitioner, but hopefully one more akin to the one lme has a relationship with than the one you are being forced to deal with in London. I totally agree that you should be very polite and very specific in your response. I would endeavour to find out exactly what documentation do they require and exactly what do they wish to discuss? Explain that you will be more than willing to help them but would request that the meeting be held at your offices. Offer them say three or four options when you are available.
Above all what you are trying to demonstrate is that you have nothing to hide, want to co-operate and are being as reasonable as possible. If they refuse, and take it to Court, that is what the Court will see!
As an IP myself, and an FCA and CTA, I have to agree wholehartedly with The_Saint. Whover you go with ask for a couple of references relevant to the job you want doing, either accountants, solicitors or even directors of other companies they have dealt with. Ask for an indication of likely fees, and details of their charge rates. Get a comparison with others.
And if you want it done quickly, what time are you free this afternoon for me to pop over?
I would not consider changing - how many of those "cheaper" options are ready for iXBRL or any of the other changes which undoubtedly will follow. Stick with the best, it's worth the extra cost.
Estimate the dividend to be paid over the NEXT three months and, assuming you have sufficient distributable reserves, do minutes and divi voucher now. That divi is credited to the loan account and drawn against over the quarter. Repeat every three months. Simples.
My answers
Unfortunately, you are
John is absolutely correct. You will need to utilise a formal insolvency process, a Members Voluntary Liquidation, and you will need to use a licensed insolvency practitioner to deal with it.
PM me if you want to chat through the process.
Phil Wood
Convoluted argument
You start off trying to achieve Chartered status by using others, then when that is pointed out you attack on the qualified v experience argument and bring in client care, which was not part of your original argument and now it's down to children, other business interests and work/life balance. Forgive me for being cynical but how many excuses do you need for failing to complete your qualification, and then trying to get Chartered status for your firm despite you not being qualified - thank goodness for the little protection afforded to qualified accountants!
What's with the "Don't you go on holiday" point
I do, and quite regularly for one, two or even four weeks at a time - BUT I always have my phone on and always ensure I have wifi available. I am in very regular contact with my office, reviewing all incoming and outgoing post on a daily basis (all scanned into Docusoft) - that's how I manage to take so many holidays - will the Court allow me that facility, I think not! So the question of holidays is, for me and many others I suspect, a totally irrelevant one.
If you want the status ...
Then I suggest you enter into a training contract and take and pass the examinations, and then subject yourself to the same level of fees, supervision and compliance that all qualified accountants have to do. That way you shouldn't have any problems with the structure you are trying to create.
Seek advice
If you, or your "friend", want this to be done correctly, you, or rather they, MUST seek the advice of a licensed insolvency practitioner NOW. This has to be handled correctly or whoever is responsible, be they a named director or a shadow director, will face potentially serious consequences - credit card companies quite rightly come down very hard when or if they suspect fraud may be an issue. You need to deal with this NOW.
Only take advice from a qualified professional
My deepest sympathy to you and I hope that you do eventually find a way to work through your problem, believe me there are ways. I am also a Chartered Accountant and a licensed insolvency practitioner, and some of the comments above do give cause for concern. If you do choose to go down the bankruptcy route, your shares will definitely form part of your assets and it is likely that a trustee would want to realise these, probably by way of a sale of the practice either to another practitioner or, post discharge, to you (if you were able to raise the finance). In addition do not, under any circumstances, get a "prepaid" card which you might use for "brucey bonuses" and which you fail to disclose to a trustee in bankruptcy - you are after all swearing a statement of affairs and don't want to commit perjury.
Take proper professional advice. Gill Hankey has been mentioned above at the Bankruptcy Advisory Service (tel 01482 633035). She is not an insolvency practitioner but does know an awful lot about the process and is an excellent place to start, she is also VERY reasonable.
Another option would be for you to talk to your local District Society liaison officer - have you tried that?
Finally how about selling your practice and doing a deal with your creditors, either through an informal arrangement if there are not many and they will do it or through a formal IVA - possibly to a practice who will then employ you.
Fell free to give me a call if it would help
Phil Wood
[email protected]
www.bcr-insolvency.co.uk
Let them come to you
Firstly let me declare an interest - I am an insolvency practitioner, but hopefully one more akin to the one lme has a relationship with than the one you are being forced to deal with in London. I totally agree that you should be very polite and very specific in your response. I would endeavour to find out exactly what documentation do they require and exactly what do they wish to discuss? Explain that you will be more than willing to help them but would request that the meeting be held at your offices. Offer them say three or four options when you are available.
Above all what you are trying to demonstrate is that you have nothing to hide, want to co-operate and are being as reasonable as possible. If they refuse, and take it to Court, that is what the Court will see!
Phil Wood
www.bcr-insolvency.co.uk
Reputation
As an IP myself, and an FCA and CTA, I have to agree wholehartedly with The_Saint. Whover you go with ask for a couple of references relevant to the job you want doing, either accountants, solicitors or even directors of other companies they have dealt with. Ask for an indication of likely fees, and details of their charge rates. Get a comparison with others.
And if you want it done quickly, what time are you free this afternoon for me to pop over?
Phil Wood
Barringtons Corporate Recovery
Stick with Iris
I would not consider changing - how many of those "cheaper" options are ready for iXBRL or any of the other changes which undoubtedly will follow. Stick with the best, it's worth the extra cost.
Simple solution
Maybe - you're right, why take the risk?
Estimate the dividend to be paid over the NEXT three months and, assuming you have sufficient distributable reserves, do minutes and divi voucher now. That divi is credited to the loan account and drawn against over the quarter. Repeat every three months. Simples.
Phili Wood
www.barringtons-online.co.uk