That includes a tick box to say the partner is non resident that allows registration without a NI No IIRC
Edit: Although looking at the form now possibly not so. I had in mind that the reason that there was the tick box for non UK Res was to allow for your circumstance.
On the second part re loans against personal BtL's
subject to the rules about no relief on more than the value of ptoperties when first let has he not extracted excess capital from the personal property business and replaced that with additional borrowing, so that the interest relief is against the personal BtL property business profits whether he buys new properties to let, or invests the funds in the DevCo?
what's the 'current situation of CGT implication on Inherited Property'?
Does he live in the property now and has he always done so? If so it seems like he acquire the whole share at PV & would be exempt on any gain arising. Looking at examples 7(a) might only be an issue if wife had not used the property as PPR for some period and that appears not to be the case, and certainly not since 31/3/1982 - which I think is the date you were meaning to reference
He has an obligation to advise of the need to register &submit
It is then for HMRC to require a return.
If he hasn't advised that he needs to make a return then the failure to notify rules come into play instead of failure to submit (because until HMRC ask he hasn't been required to submit).
Client has potentially advised requirement to register for SA late, so if HMRC did not require the 12-13 return by 31/10/13 the filing date moves on to three months from the date they ask for the return (submission by paper or electronically).
So there may not be a late filing penalty, but that could become a late notification penalty instead
They will not issue discovery assessments but determinations - ie estimates - and you will then need to sort your papers out and submit the returns to overturn those determinations.
Ignore those and you will be stuck with the determinations (estimates) and have to pay the tax due subject to acceptance of a claim for Special Relief
the enquiry is into the husbands personal return, not the partnership return and HMRC are saying that they have received and accepted a partnership return under s12AA TMA, which is now out of time for amendment.
While an enquiry into the partnership return extends to partners prsonal returns the reverse is not the case so you are rather stuck with a he says / she says / they say conundrum
You / hubby are saying that the return as submitted is not correct and the agent had no authority to submit the return showing the allocations that it did. HMRC have accepted it as a valid submission.
Who did HMRC require to make the partnership return as 'nominated partner'?
Where did you get the copy of the partnership return on which hubby's return was based that differs to the one submitted?
What trail of correspondence is there to show what was authorised for submission (if anything.
If you can dislodge the validity of the submission by the former agent then you are probably in a penalty position re late submission, though depending on the correspondenc trail above you might be able to mount a reasonable excuse claim based on what was authorised for submission (again if anything)
Was there a partnership deed that sets out what the profit allocation should be? I bet not
I still cannot track down the case I have in mind where a partner failed to dislodge a profit allocation in the partnership return with what he thought it should be and where he was not the nominated partner, but that would potentially be of no assistance in an appeal to the tribunal agaimst amendment of the hubby's personal return in line with the [falsely] submitted figures in the return which is probably where you are at at the moment.
What you need to be able to do is to find evidence to prove that the return as submitted was invalidly made by the former agent to get HMRC to dislodge that, along with evidence to back a reasonable excuse claim against a failure to submit the partnership return on time.
Have a look at EM7025 not a great deal of help, but perhaps a way in to try and get HMRC to reopen / enquire the partnership return on discovery?
So we've been told the husband believes the return is wrong, but what did the nominated partner submit, who is the nominated partner and is that what HMRC are sticking to?
But if purportedly submitted by the nominated partner, and if it was not noted as provisional so that HMRC believe it to be correct, and if the date for amendment of the partnership return is now past then HMRC are presumably saying they have a final return with allocation of profits and the husband cannot change this to what he thinks is the correct figure of tax profit share assessable on him inhis personal SATR. Cannot immediately lay my hands on a case where the taxpayer, who was not the nominated partner, failed in an attempt on this basis but I recall one, or similar.
My answers
Complete an SA401
That includes a tick box to say the partner is non resident that allows registration without a NI No IIRC
Edit: Although looking at the form now possibly not so. I had in mind that the reason that there was the tick box for non UK Res was to allow for your circumstance.
On the second part re loans against personal BtL's
subject to the rules about no relief on more than the value of ptoperties when first let has he not extracted excess capital from the personal property business and replaced that with additional borrowing, so that the interest relief is against the personal BtL property business profits whether he buys new properties to let, or invests the funds in the DevCo?
What have I missed?
what's the 'current situation of CGT implication on Inherited Property'?
Does he live in the property now and has he always done so? If so it seems like he acquire the whole share at PV & would be exempt on any gain arising. Looking at examples 7(a) might only be an issue if wife had not used the property as PPR for some period and that appears not to be the case, and certainly not since 31/3/1982 - which I think is the date you were meaning to reference
This appears to be for ITSA
which requires notice of chargeability under TMA s7
Notice of Chargeability for CTSA is 12 months from end of AP in FA1998 Sch18 Para2
The three months does not apply now IIRC
Changed when the new penalty rules came in
He has an obligation to advise of the need to register &submit
It is then for HMRC to require a return.
If he hasn't advised that he needs to make a return then the failure to notify rules come into play instead of failure to submit (because until HMRC ask he hasn't been required to submit).
Still a penalty, just a different one
Depends when HMRC requires the return
Client has potentially advised requirement to register for SA late, so if HMRC did not require the 12-13 return by 31/10/13 the filing date moves on to three months from the date they ask for the return (submission by paper or electronically).
So there may not be a late filing penalty, but that could become a late notification penalty instead
They have required returns to be made
You have ignored them
They will not issue discovery assessments but determinations - ie estimates - and you will then need to sort your papers out and submit the returns to overturn those determinations.
Ignore those and you will be stuck with the determinations (estimates) and have to pay the tax due subject to acceptance of a claim for Special Relief
So
the enquiry is into the husbands personal return, not the partnership return and HMRC are saying that they have received and accepted a partnership return under s12AA TMA, which is now out of time for amendment.
While an enquiry into the partnership return extends to partners prsonal returns the reverse is not the case so you are rather stuck with a he says / she says / they say conundrum
You / hubby are saying that the return as submitted is not correct and the agent had no authority to submit the return showing the allocations that it did. HMRC have accepted it as a valid submission.
Who did HMRC require to make the partnership return as 'nominated partner'?
Where did you get the copy of the partnership return on which hubby's return was based that differs to the one submitted?
What trail of correspondence is there to show what was authorised for submission (if anything.
If you can dislodge the validity of the submission by the former agent then you are probably in a penalty position re late submission, though depending on the correspondenc trail above you might be able to mount a reasonable excuse claim based on what was authorised for submission (again if anything)
Was there a partnership deed that sets out what the profit allocation should be? I bet not
I still cannot track down the case I have in mind where a partner failed to dislodge a profit allocation in the partnership return with what he thought it should be and where he was not the nominated partner, but that would potentially be of no assistance in an appeal to the tribunal agaimst amendment of the hubby's personal return in line with the [falsely] submitted figures in the return which is probably where you are at at the moment.
What you need to be able to do is to find evidence to prove that the return as submitted was invalidly made by the former agent to get HMRC to dislodge that, along with evidence to back a reasonable excuse claim against a failure to submit the partnership return on time.
Have a look at EM7025 not a great deal of help, but perhaps a way in to try and get HMRC to reopen / enquire the partnership return on discovery?
Indeed
So we've been told the husband believes the return is wrong, but what did the nominated partner submit, who is the nominated partner and is that what HMRC are sticking to?
But if purportedly submitted by the nominated partner, and if it was not noted as provisional so that HMRC believe it to be correct, and if the date for amendment of the partnership return is now past then HMRC are presumably saying they have a final return with allocation of profits and the husband cannot change this to what he thinks is the correct figure of tax profit share assessable on him inhis personal SATR. Cannot immediately lay my hands on a case where the taxpayer, who was not the nominated partner, failed in an attempt on this basis but I recall one, or similar.