I agree it does go against the ignorance being no excuse thing but on the other hand there is no law that says a taxpayer must be represented by a professional so while they do then take it upon themselves to know the rules on tax, this is so arbitrary and it has nothing to do with the actual tax calcs themselves. By agreeing to cancel the penalty HMRC would seem to agree that it is reasonable for a taxpayer to have missed this. The flip side is perhaps HMRC are really agreeing it's an unreasonable process!
I just told HMRC how it all happened which is: The taxpayer (not a wealthy individual at all) has been filing her own straight forward tax returns without fail and on time for many years and she knew she would have to report a gain on the return. She wasn't a client of mine but I know her and she asked me about the CGT entries on her return. I pointed out that she should have completed a CGT Return which came as a complete surprise to her. We did that together very quickly after I pointed out the error. I relayed all that to HMRC and the fact that the solicitor had said absolutely nothing about this. I also told them it was a daft system!
I recently took on a client who didn't realise a CGT was due on the sale of a property. Solicitors never told her and when pressed they referred to their terms and conditions saying they don't give tax advice! She did receive a £100 penalty for a late CGT return but this was waived on appeal. From others I have seen, solicitors are not telling their clients about this.
This is the message I received from HMRC about this issue:
Thank you for contacting HM Revenue & Customs and referring an e-mail sent from our ‘Government Gateway’ service. Please be aware that any replies to this mailbox are not monitored.
If you did not try to register for an account, you can safely ignore the message.
HMRC is aware of several customers receiving multiple unexpected emails regarding this issue which is currently being investigated.
If you have clicked on any links, or opened any attachments, we recommend you run your antivirus software as a matter of urgency and update any relevant passwords.
If you have disclosed any personal details to this scam, please forward a report to us at [email protected].
If you have disclosed any bank or card details, please contact your bank or card issuer immediately.
We recommend the National Cyber Security Centre’s 6 Top Tips to be Cyber Aware:
1. Create a separate password for your email
2. Create a strong password using three random words
3. Save your passwords in your browser
4. Turn on two-factor authentication
5. Update your devices
6. Turn on backup
For more information about what we do with the data you provide, please search GOV.UK for “HMRC Privacy Notice.”
Please continue to forward all suspicious DVLA & HMRC related e-mails / texts to [email protected]
I think you have a good point Parttimer. I'm not sure that pro-rating would be the way to go but I wonder why they changed the previous regs where you had to decide for yourself what you needed. That seemed to me to be a grown up way of managing CPD requirements whereas we now have a simple, mindless box ticking exercise. I can only presume this is to make it easier for ICAEW to check but more is certainly not necessarily better. I do disagree with this policy and your discrimination point I think is a valid one.
I am a sole practitioner with about 60 payroll clients. Most of them are straight forward, director only payrolls.
I used Keypay for about 6 months a few years ago having used Moneysoft for over 10 years. Though it has loads of features I found KP's layout very confusing whereas Staffology was much more straight forward and logical so moved to Staffology pre the Iris acquisition.
After using Staffology for a couple of years, I had a couple of issues and found Iris support to be dreadful (email only and slow) so had another look around at the beginning of this tax year. I tried Capium, Keypay (again) and Brightpay. Capium didn't seem developed enough with some features missing (e.g. CIS and - as I recall - full automation). Brightpay was like an updated version of Moneysoft (which is good) but didn't seem to have the automation that I want and which both Keypay and Staffology provide. Seriously considered moving back to Keypay but I still really struggled with its layout even after several in depth training/induction sessions so in the end I stayed with Staffology.
I do really like Staffology's simplicity and automation; running payroll has never been quicker. Speaking to my account manager at Iris, they are throwing everything into Staffology so that will become their go to product. That gives me confidence that it will only get better from here.
I do still use Moneysoft for a couple of clients because of the integration I need with Creative autoenrolment. In fact I'll probably always keep Moneysoft as it's cheap and is a great tool for looking at future pay runs and what if analysis which none of the other payroll software providers give.
It is annoying none of these providers offer a free trial period. It's ended up being a very expensive year for payroll software!
I had a similar issue with emails to gmail accounts getting sent rejected. 'Luckily' I had the same issue with another piece of software (TaxCalc) so I knew it was not a Moneysoft related issue. I use Outlook as my email client and a 3rd party domain host (Freeola) but with the DNS records pointing to MS365 servers. This latter bit means to all intents and purposes MS365 is my host so these are the credentials I need to use in 3rd party apps such as Moneysoft and Taxcalc. I had to create something called an 'app password' in MS365, enter that in Moneysoft and TaxCalc (different password for each) and everything now goes through fine. Microsoft were actually very helpful but it did take some time to understand and resolve the issue. This link is for Moneysoft's help on the issue if you haven't seen that already: https://moneysoft.co.uk/support/sending-emails-payroll-manager-using-gmail/
I moved from Digita to Taxcalc about 5 years ago and never looked back. All my clients are on Xero but while there is a Xero integration with TC I'm happy importing csv files. Will be a long time before I let Xero loose on any tax reporting aside from VAT. VAT Reports, Payroll and Reports generally are, for me, one of Xero's weakest areas. Their high handed attitude to phasing out old style reports and introducing new style reports is rather high handed and puts me off entrusting them with such a business critical element of software.
Update on move from Staffology to Brightpay: Tried Brightpay but was disappointed. Seemed to me to be a more modern and prettier version of Moneysoft but much more expensive and no automation. I bailed and had a go with Keypay. Wow, how seriously complicated and confusing can you make a product? After hours of trying to use it and with a 2 hour Q&A with very helpful team, it just bamboozled me. Tried Capium: Has the makings of a decent product and it's cheap but no CIS that I could see and system (which is cloud based) seemed to take ages to complete various actions. Reporting a bit weak. Frustrated by these options I have gone back to Staffology. Despite some irritations, it's so easy to use and with the automation, my simple director only clients get done so quickly. I hope IRIS continue to improve the product though they are being slow to do so and I've not been impressed by their support. I still have Moneysoft in my back pocket for a rainy day!
I have been using Staffology for the last couple of years, mainly because of the automation. (I have about 60 payroll clients.) It is in the cloud - which I like as no backup issues etc - but more importantly there is a lot of automation and it links to Xero. However, after about 2 years I am now moving to Brightpay as I've had too many problems with Staffology: incorrect NI calcs for 2021-22 P11Ds and recently incorrect employer's NI calcs, payslips &/or automated emails not being sent and dreadful support. Also 4 months to get a duplicate DD returned. Oh and they're hiking their prices for the privelege!
I used Moneysoft for 10 years or so and still do for a few trickier payrolls. There are some features in Moneysoft which I haven't seen in any other payroll software e.g. being able to see payroll deductions for the whole tax year ahead. For me it's worth the small fee just as a payroll calculator and check. It doesn't have enough automation though and no link to Smart Pensions.
Before moving to Staffology I used Keypay for a short while and loved the automation and automatic journals to Xero but found it a bit clunky and I never quite got comfortable with it. I think it's a very comprehensive system and know others use it and like it.
Now to Brightpay, mainly for the automation and automatic journal entries. It also links to Smart and Nest. Looks to be good and plenty of advocates here so we'll see. I have a call with the migration team this afternoon so not yet sure what this will involve. I assume some part will be automated but also suspect some work to get all clients up there. Hopefully short term pain for long term gain.
My answers
I agree it does go against the ignorance being no excuse thing but on the other hand there is no law that says a taxpayer must be represented by a professional so while they do then take it upon themselves to know the rules on tax, this is so arbitrary and it has nothing to do with the actual tax calcs themselves. By agreeing to cancel the penalty HMRC would seem to agree that it is reasonable for a taxpayer to have missed this. The flip side is perhaps HMRC are really agreeing it's an unreasonable process!
I just told HMRC how it all happened which is: The taxpayer (not a wealthy individual at all) has been filing her own straight forward tax returns without fail and on time for many years and she knew she would have to report a gain on the return. She wasn't a client of mine but I know her and she asked me about the CGT entries on her return. I pointed out that she should have completed a CGT Return which came as a complete surprise to her. We did that together very quickly after I pointed out the error. I relayed all that to HMRC and the fact that the solicitor had said absolutely nothing about this. I also told them it was a daft system!
I recently took on a client who didn't realise a CGT was due on the sale of a property. Solicitors never told her and when pressed they referred to their terms and conditions saying they don't give tax advice! She did receive a £100 penalty for a late CGT return but this was waived on appeal. From others I have seen, solicitors are not telling their clients about this.
This is the message I received from HMRC about this issue:
Thank you for contacting HM Revenue & Customs and referring an e-mail sent from our ‘Government Gateway’ service. Please be aware that any replies to this mailbox are not monitored.
If you did not try to register for an account, you can safely ignore the message.
HMRC is aware of several customers receiving multiple unexpected emails regarding this issue which is currently being investigated.
If you have clicked on any links, or opened any attachments, we recommend you run your antivirus software as a matter of urgency and update any relevant passwords.
If you have disclosed any personal details to this scam, please forward a report to us at [email protected].
If you have disclosed any bank or card details, please contact your bank or card issuer immediately.
We recommend the National Cyber Security Centre’s 6 Top Tips to be Cyber Aware:
1. Create a separate password for your email
2. Create a strong password using three random words
3. Save your passwords in your browser
4. Turn on two-factor authentication
5. Update your devices
6. Turn on backup
For more information about what we do with the data you provide, please search GOV.UK for “HMRC Privacy Notice.”
Please continue to forward all suspicious DVLA & HMRC related e-mails / texts to [email protected]
I think you have a good point Parttimer. I'm not sure that pro-rating would be the way to go but I wonder why they changed the previous regs where you had to decide for yourself what you needed. That seemed to me to be a grown up way of managing CPD requirements whereas we now have a simple, mindless box ticking exercise. I can only presume this is to make it easier for ICAEW to check but more is certainly not necessarily better. I do disagree with this policy and your discrimination point I think is a valid one.
I am a sole practitioner with about 60 payroll clients. Most of them are straight forward, director only payrolls.
I used Keypay for about 6 months a few years ago having used Moneysoft for over 10 years. Though it has loads of features I found KP's layout very confusing whereas Staffology was much more straight forward and logical so moved to Staffology pre the Iris acquisition.
After using Staffology for a couple of years, I had a couple of issues and found Iris support to be dreadful (email only and slow) so had another look around at the beginning of this tax year. I tried Capium, Keypay (again) and Brightpay. Capium didn't seem developed enough with some features missing (e.g. CIS and - as I recall - full automation). Brightpay was like an updated version of Moneysoft (which is good) but didn't seem to have the automation that I want and which both Keypay and Staffology provide. Seriously considered moving back to Keypay but I still really struggled with its layout even after several in depth training/induction sessions so in the end I stayed with Staffology.
I do really like Staffology's simplicity and automation; running payroll has never been quicker. Speaking to my account manager at Iris, they are throwing everything into Staffology so that will become their go to product. That gives me confidence that it will only get better from here.
I do still use Moneysoft for a couple of clients because of the integration I need with Creative autoenrolment. In fact I'll probably always keep Moneysoft as it's cheap and is a great tool for looking at future pay runs and what if analysis which none of the other payroll software providers give.
It is annoying none of these providers offer a free trial period. It's ended up being a very expensive year for payroll software!
I had a similar issue with emails to gmail accounts getting sent rejected. 'Luckily' I had the same issue with another piece of software (TaxCalc) so I knew it was not a Moneysoft related issue. I use Outlook as my email client and a 3rd party domain host (Freeola) but with the DNS records pointing to MS365 servers. This latter bit means to all intents and purposes MS365 is my host so these are the credentials I need to use in 3rd party apps such as Moneysoft and Taxcalc. I had to create something called an 'app password' in MS365, enter that in Moneysoft and TaxCalc (different password for each) and everything now goes through fine. Microsoft were actually very helpful but it did take some time to understand and resolve the issue. This link is for Moneysoft's help on the issue if you haven't seen that already: https://moneysoft.co.uk/support/sending-emails-payroll-manager-using-gmail/
I moved from Digita to Taxcalc about 5 years ago and never looked back. All my clients are on Xero but while there is a Xero integration with TC I'm happy importing csv files. Will be a long time before I let Xero loose on any tax reporting aside from VAT. VAT Reports, Payroll and Reports generally are, for me, one of Xero's weakest areas. Their high handed attitude to phasing out old style reports and introducing new style reports is rather high handed and puts me off entrusting them with such a business critical element of software.
Update on move from Staffology to Brightpay: Tried Brightpay but was disappointed. Seemed to me to be a more modern and prettier version of Moneysoft but much more expensive and no automation. I bailed and had a go with Keypay. Wow, how seriously complicated and confusing can you make a product? After hours of trying to use it and with a 2 hour Q&A with very helpful team, it just bamboozled me. Tried Capium: Has the makings of a decent product and it's cheap but no CIS that I could see and system (which is cloud based) seemed to take ages to complete various actions. Reporting a bit weak. Frustrated by these options I have gone back to Staffology. Despite some irritations, it's so easy to use and with the automation, my simple director only clients get done so quickly. I hope IRIS continue to improve the product though they are being slow to do so and I've not been impressed by their support. I still have Moneysoft in my back pocket for a rainy day!
I have been using Staffology for the last couple of years, mainly because of the automation. (I have about 60 payroll clients.) It is in the cloud - which I like as no backup issues etc - but more importantly there is a lot of automation and it links to Xero. However, after about 2 years I am now moving to Brightpay as I've had too many problems with Staffology: incorrect NI calcs for 2021-22 P11Ds and recently incorrect employer's NI calcs, payslips &/or automated emails not being sent and dreadful support. Also 4 months to get a duplicate DD returned. Oh and they're hiking their prices for the privelege!
I used Moneysoft for 10 years or so and still do for a few trickier payrolls. There are some features in Moneysoft which I haven't seen in any other payroll software e.g. being able to see payroll deductions for the whole tax year ahead. For me it's worth the small fee just as a payroll calculator and check. It doesn't have enough automation though and no link to Smart Pensions.
Before moving to Staffology I used Keypay for a short while and loved the automation and automatic journals to Xero but found it a bit clunky and I never quite got comfortable with it. I think it's a very comprehensive system and know others use it and like it.
Now to Brightpay, mainly for the automation and automatic journal entries. It also links to Smart and Nest. Looks to be good and plenty of advocates here so we'll see. I have a call with the migration team this afternoon so not yet sure what this will involve. I assume some part will be automated but also suspect some work to get all clients up there. Hopefully short term pain for long term gain.