IIRC - When a individial changes residency to the UK their ongoing business is deemed to have ceased and then commenced either at the start of the tax year, or in certain cases on the date of arrival in the UK.
You have to include t/o of the previous business VAT registration when you take over a going concern
A business is a going concern if it is a business that is live or operating, or sufficient preparatory work has taken place, and the business will continue after it is sold.
Even if you have not taken over any assets at all you may still have taken over the business for the purposes of VAT registration. For example, if you rent premises from the owner of a public house or restaurant and you continue to run the pub or restaurant you will be liable to register for VAT based on the previous publican's or restaurateur's VAT taxable turnover.
VAT registration at the time of the transfer
If you're not already registered for VAT, then to find out if you have to be registered, add your own VAT taxable turnover over the previous 12 months (if any) to that of the VAT-registered business you're taking over. If the total exceeds the registration threshold (currently £81,000), you'll have to be registered for VAT from the day of the transfer.
There's an exception to this. If you can show that you expect the combined turnover in future to be below the deregistration threshold (currently £79,000) - for example, because you won't be opening for the same number of hours - you don't need to register.
Even if you don't have to be registered for VAT at the time of transfer, you can choose to register voluntarily. If your registration is in place at the time of the transfer, you won't be charged VAT on the sale - see the section in this guide on VAT on the sale of a going concern.
VAT registration after you take over a business
If you're not registered for VAT when you take over a business, you might still have to register at some point in the future. You will have to add your turnover (if any) for the previous 12 months to that of the VAT-registered business you bought and check this against the current registration threshold, on a rolling monthly basis.
This has been flogged to death here - being a Company Director does NOT impose a statutory duty to file a Tax Return in spite of what HMRC seem to think
Yes, but if a notice to file has been issued then they do. I would appeal any late registration penalty where I did not beleive they had any reason to register other than being a director, but if a notice to file has been issued then the legislation is clear, you must file, even a nil return.
Have they received a late filing penalty notice if they are sending the letters to the wrong address? Self Assessment returns are not only for the self employed.
He then later confirms that it is an actual debt on HMRC's systems due to eroneous returns submitted by a previous accountant, something that has caused me a nightmare before to sort out. It just annoys me that we loose ammunition to correct real errors when we keep beating HMRC for non-errors.
I for one am willing to harang HMRC for chasing non-debts, but this clearly was a debt in this case and yet the insults against the department continued. Nobody insulted the possible former accountant for the eroneous filings. Until people are honest about where the actual failing lie we are never going to get anything working better.
It is sad to see questions which are clearly about obtaining monies by deception, do these people not have any inkling of the mess they could find themselves in?
My apologies if you thought that it was aimed at you. It annoys me that this is often brushed under the carpet or simply a blind eye is turned to this practice which we all know occurs. So I was just trying to bring it into the open again and was not aiming this at you or any other member specifically.
If they have a right to use their powers to obtain the information what have you gained by refusing except putting the HMRC officer in a position to be less cooperative? Remember you are there to represent your client to the best of your abilities, not to just try and wind up HMRC and make it worse for your clients.
Defending your client should always be based on the facts you have, to do this well you have to ensure that these are the same facts available to HMRC otherwise you are wasting your time by just sitting on them, that is unless you simply want to increase your fees by dragging out an enquiry, we all probably now parties guilty of that!
My answers
Deemed Cessation/Commencement
IIRC - When a individial changes residency to the UK their ongoing business is deemed to have ceased and then commenced either at the start of the tax year, or in certain cases on the date of arrival in the UK.
You have to include t/o of the previous business
VAT registration when you take over a going concern
A business is a going concern if it is a business that is live or operating, or sufficient preparatory work has taken place, and the business will continue after it is sold.
Even if you have not taken over any assets at all you may still have taken over the business for the purposes of VAT registration. For example, if you rent premises from the owner of a public house or restaurant and you continue to run the pub or restaurant you will be liable to register for VAT based on the previous publican's or restaurateur's VAT taxable turnover.
VAT registration at the time of the transfer
If you're not already registered for VAT, then to find out if you have to be registered, add your own VAT taxable turnover over the previous 12 months (if any) to that of the VAT-registered business you're taking over. If the total exceeds the registration threshold (currently £81,000), you'll have to be registered for VAT from the day of the transfer.
There's an exception to this. If you can show that you expect the combined turnover in future to be below the deregistration threshold (currently £79,000) - for example, because you won't be opening for the same number of hours - you don't need to register.
Even if you don't have to be registered for VAT at the time of transfer, you can choose to register voluntarily. If your registration is in place at the time of the transfer, you won't be charged VAT on the sale - see the section in this guide on VAT on the sale of a going concern.
VAT registration after you take over a business
If you're not registered for VAT when you take over a business, you might still have to register at some point in the future. You will have to add your turnover (if any) for the previous 12 months to that of the VAT-registered business you bought and check this against the current registration threshold, on a rolling monthly basis.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/start/register/takeovers.htm#1
But
Yes, but if a notice to file has been issued then they do. I would appeal any late registration penalty where I did not beleive they had any reason to register other than being a director, but if a notice to file has been issued then the legislation is clear, you must file, even a nil return.
How then
Have they received a late filing penalty notice if they are sending the letters to the wrong address? Self Assessment returns are not only for the self employed.
Cross Border Claim
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/european-union-cross-border-claims
In the Thread
He then later confirms that it is an actual debt on HMRC's systems due to eroneous returns submitted by a previous accountant, something that has caused me a nightmare before to sort out. It just annoys me that we loose ammunition to correct real errors when we keep beating HMRC for non-errors.
Not a Non Existant Debt though
I for one am willing to harang HMRC for chasing non-debts, but this clearly was a debt in this case and yet the insults against the department continued. Nobody insulted the possible former accountant for the eroneous filings. Until people are honest about where the actual failing lie we are never going to get anything working better.
Fraud
It is sad to see questions which are clearly about obtaining monies by deception, do these people not have any inkling of the mess they could find themselves in?
No Slur
My apologies if you thought that it was aimed at you. It annoys me that this is often brushed under the carpet or simply a blind eye is turned to this practice which we all know occurs. So I was just trying to bring it into the open again and was not aiming this at you or any other member specifically.
Stand what ground?
If they have a right to use their powers to obtain the information what have you gained by refusing except putting the HMRC officer in a position to be less cooperative? Remember you are there to represent your client to the best of your abilities, not to just try and wind up HMRC and make it worse for your clients.
Defending your client should always be based on the facts you have, to do this well you have to ensure that these are the same facts available to HMRC otherwise you are wasting your time by just sitting on them, that is unless you simply want to increase your fees by dragging out an enquiry, we all probably now parties guilty of that!