It seems the legislative basis for the "deemed" six months can be found in 111 itself:
"(2) No VAT may be treated as input tax under paragraph (1) above—
(a)in respect of goods or services which had been supplied, or, in respect of goods, save as the Commissioners may otherwise allow, consumed—
(i)by the taxable person, or
(ii)in the case of paragraph (1)(b) above, by the person who imported, acquired or was supplied with the goods or services,before the date with effect from which the taxable person was, or was required to be, registered,
(b)in respect of services performed upon goods to which sub-paragraph (a) above applies, or
(c)in respect of services which had been supplied—
(i)to the taxable person, or
(ii)in the case of paragraph (1)(b) above, to the person who received the services,more than 6 months before the date of the taxable person’s registration."
Thanks for your reply. I guess he must have been the original owner but did not update his registration when the partnership was formed c.30 years ago. What a faff!
Good question - but you'll have the same issue with the paper form given there is no obvious place for this kind of apportionment. Personally I would enter an amount paid by the employee but it's the same result as adjusting the dates.
Exceptions to the requirement to notify chargeability
Section 7(3) to (7)
There are exceptions to this requirement. These are where the taxpayer has no chargeable gains (or such gains as there are do not exceed the annual exempt amount), and either:
-has no net liability to income tax for the year, or
-has had sufficient tax deducted at source to meet the net income tax liability for the year.
To be fair Justin you answered your own question from the case you quoted: "The statutory obligation on every person is to notify liability if they are chargeable to tax".
The guidance you are reading is rubbish I'm afraid. Unless you have received a notice to file or you have tax to pay there is no requirement to submit a return.
My answers
It seems the legislative basis for the "deemed" six months can be found in 111 itself:
"(2) No VAT may be treated as input tax under paragraph (1) above—
(a)in respect of goods or services which had been supplied, or, in respect of goods, save as the Commissioners may otherwise allow, consumed—
(i)by the taxable person, or
(ii)in the case of paragraph (1)(b) above, by the person who imported, acquired or was supplied with the goods or services,before the date with effect from which the taxable person was, or was required to be, registered,
(b)in respect of services performed upon goods to which sub-paragraph (a) above applies, or
(c)in respect of services which had been supplied—
(i)to the taxable person, or
(ii)in the case of paragraph (1)(b) above, to the person who received the services,more than 6 months before the date of the taxable person’s registration."
I know it is only guidance, but part time employment is specifically mentioned here:
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm24034
"In cases where the occupier is still engaged in agricultural work the work does not necessarily have to be full-time."
Thanks for your reply. I guess he must have been the original owner but did not update his registration when the partnership was formed c.30 years ago. What a faff!
D'oh yep major blonde moment there!!
Good question - but you'll have the same issue with the paper form given there is no obvious place for this kind of apportionment. Personally I would enter an amount paid by the employee but it's the same result as adjusting the dates.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim25200
I don't think HMRC agree:
Exceptions to the requirement to notify chargeability
Section 7(3) to (7)
There are exceptions to this requirement. These are where the taxpayer has no chargeable gains (or such gains as there are do not exceed the annual exempt amount), and either:
-has no net liability to income tax for the year, or
-has had sufficient tax deducted at source to meet the net income tax liability for the year.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/self-assessment-legal-framework...
To be fair Justin you answered your own question from the case you quoted: "The statutory obligation on every person is to notify liability if they are chargeable to tax".
This doesn't include 'nil', I'm afraid.
"Sage" and "upgraded" don't belong in the same sentence.
The guidance you are reading is rubbish I'm afraid. Unless you have received a notice to file or you have tax to pay there is no requirement to submit a return.