Said I would get back to you re Backstop. One of our people who has taken more interest in it has produced this :
"My understanding of the backstop is that it is all to do with inspections, which would naturally involve customs posts. This is a total red herring dreamed up by the EU and accepted by May.
There already exists a frontier between the two countries and it is actively patrolled by the south insofar as their taxes are higher than in NI, so there is plenty of fiddling going on, chief amongst which is a southerner registering a car in NI to avoid the swingeing taxes levied on imported cars, new or second hand. Fuel and booze duty is also lower up north, so there is a fairly brisk contraband business and that is before we start looking at the agricultural fiddles.
So whether we are in or out, both governments have clearly stated that neither has any wish for a 'hard' border. Only the EU is kicking up a fuss. That said, by running a border down the Irish Sea, Eire is making a blatant land grab for NI, which has upset the Unionists.
With regard to frictionless trade, this is something of a myth. Customs have three braid roles. Collecting duty and VAT, preventing smuggling and last, but by no means least, logging trade in and out of the country. Customs is, in effect, the nation's book keeper in this respect.
The EU too needs to keep books (of sorts) and for that, it uses two tools. The first is the EU sales list found on VAT 100. This is fairly painless to use. The other is Intrastats and they are a complete nightmare. The level of detail is absurd and returns have to be made every month within a week of the month end. This is hugely demanding and expensive. Companies will more than likely be delighted to get rid of that particular nightmare.
Any overseas trader is very unlikely to clear in a port. There is limited space and staff. Rather, they use inland sites set up for this purpose. Where trucks are involved, such places will have repair, catering, shower, truck wash and accommodation facilities. Furthermore, it makes more sense to clear in the Midlands which is where most distribution operations have their hubs, being roughly central in the country. A truck can generally make a round trip within in single shift.
Any trader has to comply with local regulations and that has never changed. So anybody wishing to sell into the EU will have to adhere to their rules. The reverse holds true.
If both sides could elevate themselves from the playground and stop squabbling over toys, there is no reason why mutual trust should not continue in the same vein as is currently the case.
In the case of BMW, all of their X Series vehicles are made in the USA. We might end up in the odd position of not checking vehicles from the US while putting those from Germany through the mill. How silly does everybody want to be with this?
What is essential is that they must understand that if they play silly buggers with us, we will respond in kind at once. It will soon stop"
Hope this helps - I know everyone has stated it will never be used! So what is is it really about??
Kaylee100
I will refer back when I have consulted - so much confusion re "backstop."
_________
Not sure about other comment re Irish border - my people are from Belfast/Liverpool. I married a Southern Irish girl and from England I spent many happy years on fishing trips to Ireland (North and South) crossing backward and forward....................................
Our leaders think they have a right
to muddle through, but they don't fight -
the flower of youth who want to live
in peace, in love, their lives they give.
....
I wish that I could happier be
they gave their lives for you and me;
but at the end - I must confess;
I wished they'd loved their Country less.
And of course dear old Rudyard:
A Dead Statesman
I could not dig: I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
Always puts me in mind of Blair - can't think why?
Who hoo-I have found it after looking through every response; it is obviously my fault since I failed to realise that date order appears to be an outmoded concept.
I did say no more discussion from me - but reading all the replies I have to renege on that promise.
One item really riled me though - I do not think Andy mentioned WW2 - I did; and if I did not make it clear first time around I will say it again. Two of my uncles died as a result of the war. They fought for the freedom and sovereignty of this their country - not to join a European Empire controlled by the Germans and run by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats!!!
(key upcoming reference to me as a racist and a xenophobe. Perhaps you would like to meet my muslim wife?)
In my view the most interesting thread in years is showing the same muddled thinking that has got us into this mess.
Leave meant regaining sovereignty, having control of our borders, using again our own laws which have served us well for centuries and being free to make our own trade deals, among other aspects. What is so difficult to understand?
This emphasis on "Trade" is a red herring and the NI backstop was contrived by May to put a spanner in the works.
It seems to some that leave has to win twice.
Those who voted to remain possibly thought they would keep the status quo - they are in for a shock if we do not fully leave.
Oh, and I know quite a lot about the workings of the EU since my ex wife was employed by The Commission for thirteen or so years - I would love to see an itemised bill for that 39 billion - we paid for a lot of that infrastructure in Brussels and Strasbourg.
Maybe, as I am one of the older generation who voted leave, but being in good health, I should think on and have a look at the Dignitas Tariff - appears a lot of remainers want us to do that.
Could some kindly soul please help an old man out. Despite logging out and back in, searching and fiddling with "digest frequency" and generally getting frustrated I still cannot find content on the original thread after that from Kaylee100 on 26 April.
Perhaps replies after that one might be reposted on a new thread???
I too remember the good old days when threads were simple to follow - I use pc only - I would not attempt it on a 'phone!
I am in full agreement with the sentiments expressed by the OP and the responses from Andy, studied as always.
I voted to leave and I am a proud member of UKIP (used to be Tory).
The so called WA is not a deal - it is a surrender document - I wonder what my uncles killed by WW2 would make of it?
(Note that I make no inference as to the political affiliations of those I mention since I have no knowledge of their views).
I am not looking for a war of words over this - arguments finish at the ballot box.
Taking this in a different direction there are three aspects of the present situation that worry me greatly.
1. The Referendum has highlighted the lies, obfuscations(more epithets on request) and, frankly the traitorous inclinations of "The Establishment" and politicians of most stripes.
2. The "no platforming" "demonetising" and other attempts to silence dissenting voices.
3. The disgraceful suggestion that some benefits should be taken from the oldest and poorest in society - I could write a thesis on where genuine savings could and should be made!
As an aside: Many years ago a client asked me to complete a tax return for his pensioner dad who was employed by him on a part-time basis. Looking through the paperwork I saw that his mother had paid tax which was reclaimable - of course she had no idea that was possible. From memory it was about £64 - helped a little towards her pitiable pension income.
I am in full agreement with the sentiments expressed by the OP and the responses from Andy, studied as always.
I voted to leave and I am a proud member of UKIP (used to be Tory).
The so called WA is not a deal - it is a surrender document - I wonder what my uncles killed by WW2 would make of it?
(Note that I make no inference as to the political affiliations of those I mention since I have no knowledge of their views).
I am not looking for a war of words over this - arguments finish at the ballot box.
Taking this in a different direction there are three aspects of the present situation that worry me greatly.
1. The Referendum has highlighted the lies, obfuscations(more epithets on request) and, frankly the traitorous inclinations of "The Establishment" and politicians of most stripes.
2. The "no platforming" "demonetising" and other attempts to silence dissenting voices.
3. The disgraceful suggestion that some benefits should be taken from the oldest and poorest in society - I could write a thesis on where genuine savings could and should be made!
As an aside: Many years ago a client asked me to complete a tax return for his pensioner dad who was employed by him on a part-time basis. Looking through the paperwork I saw that his mother had paid tax which was reclaimable - of course she had no idea that was possible. From memory it was about £64 - helped a little towards her pitiable pension income.
My answers
Kaylee100
Said I would get back to you re Backstop. One of our people who has taken more interest in it has produced this :
"My understanding of the backstop is that it is all to do with inspections, which would naturally involve customs posts. This is a total red herring dreamed up by the EU and accepted by May.
There already exists a frontier between the two countries and it is actively patrolled by the south insofar as their taxes are higher than in NI, so there is plenty of fiddling going on, chief amongst which is a southerner registering a car in NI to avoid the swingeing taxes levied on imported cars, new or second hand. Fuel and booze duty is also lower up north, so there is a fairly brisk contraband business and that is before we start looking at the agricultural fiddles.
So whether we are in or out, both governments have clearly stated that neither has any wish for a 'hard' border. Only the EU is kicking up a fuss. That said, by running a border down the Irish Sea, Eire is making a blatant land grab for NI, which has upset the Unionists.
With regard to frictionless trade, this is something of a myth. Customs have three braid roles. Collecting duty and VAT, preventing smuggling and last, but by no means least, logging trade in and out of the country. Customs is, in effect, the nation's book keeper in this respect.
The EU too needs to keep books (of sorts) and for that, it uses two tools. The first is the EU sales list found on VAT 100. This is fairly painless to use. The other is Intrastats and they are a complete nightmare. The level of detail is absurd and returns have to be made every month within a week of the month end. This is hugely demanding and expensive. Companies will more than likely be delighted to get rid of that particular nightmare.
Any overseas trader is very unlikely to clear in a port. There is limited space and staff. Rather, they use inland sites set up for this purpose. Where trucks are involved, such places will have repair, catering, shower, truck wash and accommodation facilities. Furthermore, it makes more sense to clear in the Midlands which is where most distribution operations have their hubs, being roughly central in the country. A truck can generally make a round trip within in single shift.
Any trader has to comply with local regulations and that has never changed. So anybody wishing to sell into the EU will have to adhere to their rules. The reverse holds true.
If both sides could elevate themselves from the playground and stop squabbling over toys, there is no reason why mutual trust should not continue in the same vein as is currently the case.
In the case of BMW, all of their X Series vehicles are made in the USA. We might end up in the odd position of not checking vehicles from the US while putting those from Germany through the mill. How silly does everybody want to be with this?
What is essential is that they must understand that if they play silly buggers with us, we will respond in kind at once. It will soon stop"
Hope this helps - I know everyone has stated it will never be used! So what is is it really about??
Kaylee100
I will refer back when I have consulted - so much confusion re "backstop."
_________
Not sure about other comment re Irish border - my people are from Belfast/Liverpool. I married a Southern Irish girl and from England I spent many happy years on fishing trips to Ireland (North and South) crossing backward and forward....................................
....
Two verses from my poem about WW1 :
Our leaders think they have a right
to muddle through, but they don't fight -
the flower of youth who want to live
in peace, in love, their lives they give.
....
I wish that I could happier be
they gave their lives for you and me;
but at the end - I must confess;
I wished they'd loved their Country less.
And of course dear old Rudyard:
A Dead Statesman
I could not dig: I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
Always puts me in mind of Blair - can't think why?
Damm - thread fatigue - I meant remainers re Dignitas comment!
Sorry
.................Since amended.................................
Who hoo-I have found it after looking through every response; it is obviously my fault since I failed to realise that date order appears to be an outmoded concept.
I did say no more discussion from me - but reading all the replies I have to renege on that promise.
One item really riled me though - I do not think Andy mentioned WW2 - I did; and if I did not make it clear first time around I will say it again. Two of my uncles died as a result of the war. They fought for the freedom and sovereignty of this their country - not to join a European Empire controlled by the Germans and run by a bunch of unelected bureaucrats!!!
(key upcoming reference to me as a racist and a xenophobe. Perhaps you would like to meet my muslim wife?)
In my view the most interesting thread in years is showing the same muddled thinking that has got us into this mess.
Leave meant regaining sovereignty, having control of our borders, using again our own laws which have served us well for centuries and being free to make our own trade deals, among other aspects. What is so difficult to understand?
This emphasis on "Trade" is a red herring and the NI backstop was contrived by May to put a spanner in the works.
It seems to some that leave has to win twice.
Those who voted to remain possibly thought they would keep the status quo - they are in for a shock if we do not fully leave.
Oh, and I know quite a lot about the workings of the EU since my ex wife was employed by The Commission for thirteen or so years - I would love to see an itemised bill for that 39 billion - we paid for a lot of that infrastructure in Brussels and Strasbourg.
Maybe, as I am one of the older generation who voted leave, but being in good health, I should think on and have a look at the Dignitas Tariff - appears a lot of remainers want us to do that.
Could some kindly soul please help an old man out. Despite logging out and back in, searching and fiddling with "digest frequency" and generally getting frustrated I still cannot find content on the original thread after that from Kaylee100 on 26 April.
Perhaps replies after that one might be reposted on a new thread???
I too remember the good old days when threads were simple to follow - I use pc only - I would not attempt it on a 'phone!
I must be doing something wrong.....
latest response I can see on the original thread is from Kaylee100 on 26th April?
I am in full agreement with the sentiments expressed by the OP and the responses from Andy, studied as always.
I voted to leave and I am a proud member of UKIP (used to be Tory).
The so called WA is not a deal - it is a surrender document - I wonder what my uncles killed by WW2 would make of it?
(Note that I make no inference as to the political affiliations of those I mention since I have no knowledge of their views).
I am not looking for a war of words over this - arguments finish at the ballot box.
Taking this in a different direction there are three aspects of the present situation that worry me greatly.
1. The Referendum has highlighted the lies, obfuscations(more epithets on request) and, frankly the traitorous inclinations of "The Establishment" and politicians of most stripes.
2. The "no platforming" "demonetising" and other attempts to silence dissenting voices.
3. The disgraceful suggestion that some benefits should be taken from the oldest and poorest in society - I could write a thesis on where genuine savings could and should be made!
As an aside: Many years ago a client asked me to complete a tax return for his pensioner dad who was employed by him on a part-time basis. Looking through the paperwork I saw that his mother had paid tax which was reclaimable - of course she had no idea that was possible. From memory it was about £64 - helped a little towards her pitiable pension income.
Reply to
EU Elections
I am in full agreement with the sentiments expressed by the OP and the responses from Andy, studied as always.
I voted to leave and I am a proud member of UKIP (used to be Tory).
The so called WA is not a deal - it is a surrender document - I wonder what my uncles killed by WW2 would make of it?
(Note that I make no inference as to the political affiliations of those I mention since I have no knowledge of their views).
I am not looking for a war of words over this - arguments finish at the ballot box.
Taking this in a different direction there are three aspects of the present situation that worry me greatly.
1. The Referendum has highlighted the lies, obfuscations(more epithets on request) and, frankly the traitorous inclinations of "The Establishment" and politicians of most stripes.
2. The "no platforming" "demonetising" and other attempts to silence dissenting voices.
3. The disgraceful suggestion that some benefits should be taken from the oldest and poorest in society - I could write a thesis on where genuine savings could and should be made!
As an aside: Many years ago a client asked me to complete a tax return for his pensioner dad who was employed by him on a part-time basis. Looking through the paperwork I saw that his mother had paid tax which was reclaimable - of course she had no idea that was possible. From memory it was about £64 - helped a little towards her pitiable pension income.
I could possibly help but more information needed - pm me if you would like to discuss further.
Regards