A friend (ex teacher) got a job with the DWP during the pandemic and has hardly ever been into an office. His job is to train new people so literally he teaches them from the page he has just read.
On the whole I would rather be cleverer than the folks on the other side of the table, and put up with administrative hiccups. Surely this favours our clients' interests?
I suppose that when you left, it was still the Inland Revenue (which I left in 1984)
But is also sounds as if you left around the advent of Self Assessment which, by its nature, up-ended all previous systems. Administratively this was a Good Thing, as it codified entries on Tax Returns as database fields (Returns themselves had been largely ignored before, people send in Accounts in all sorts of formats which the Inspector converted into an Assessment).
Another change was that instead of a senior Inspector in each District 'tasting' all Accounts as they arrived and deciding which ones to accept and which to investigate, all Returns were processed straight away with a decision to be made later on which to investigate. This seems sensible but you can see how it cuts the tie with local knowledge.
But also don't forget that the Inland Revenue was intending to slim down to 13 regional offices when I joined in 1975. We can thank Ricky Tomlinson and his friends (he went to prison for this) for holding up the building of Centre 2 long enough for computerisation to be paused for reflection - a fascinating story.
So what we have now was an idea decades in the making.
Possibly my (now deceased) client used to trump all. Bob was a lovely chap and his figures were beautifully set out across two A4 pages (never data, just summaries of his 'book-keeping'). Nervy speech, really polite but we typically filed a provisional form then corrected to actual in February.
On more than one occasion he called on the 31st, back in the day when we were filing on paper (and I had 30 or so to take down after midnight and shove through the letterbox) but the worst was ten to Midnight - I did not pick up.
I concluded that Bob had a sexual thing going on, of the auto-erotic variety, and loved the thrill from the risk of being fined. He was found dead in his house and it was really sad to lose him.
These days I pre-announce that the final deadline for information is 31 October, that the 'office' will be closed from 20 December to 3 January (I work from home) and I start firing clients in November. This after all does give them the chance to go elsewhere so I have no obligation.
For good reasons this year was a bit abnormal, but January has been brilliant since I started this practice. We still have VAT Month and got several new clients this year, but I get a Christmas and don't have large numbers hanging over my head.
In April I will be putting the hammer down - for the majority, 2022/23 will be completed using FreeAgent, harvesting the data back to April 2022. So once I am in charge of the data, the issues melts away
I wish I did have magic words for the reluctant - so far kindly persuasion has brought in about 70% of the 'Target Audience" among our clients, and they actually love it when they see how much better things are.
There is a cadre of clients for whom it will not be suitable, such as a client of 38 years who is in his 80s. I'll stick with him until one of us drops off the twig - he has been loyal to me and I will be loyal to him.
After January there will be more time, and I will move from 'sign up' to 'education' as much as possible.
Finally there are some A-holes who for many years have held back their figures until the last minute, for whom it will be My Way or The Highway. I don't owe them the loyalty they have not shown to me. If they sign up, problem solved. If they leave, problem solved.
What gets my goat in these online threads is the constant, un-mitigating negativity. "Seeing Opportunity" does not equal exploitation.
Since 1984 I have only ever increased fees by inflation (aforesaid client is an example). Who else on here can say that? But my profit has gone up because all the efficiencies fall on my side of the table.
No profiteering - where did I say that I would increase fees? Persuading clients to get a NatWest or Mettle account gets them free software, so everyone wins
As a Brexiteer, I know that I would have lost with good grace. So it is now - as so many times before, HMRC has acted like The Wizard of Oz but not followed through, leaving those of us who 'responded to the call' hanging.
The only regret is that the pressure to go digital is now off, but I've thought about it. Except for a few clients such as the 80 year one who's been with me 38 years, I'm going to continue putting the hammer down and convert (in our case, to FreeAgent).
In 2024 my practice will be 40 years old and I'll be 68. Looks like I'll have a nice easy time of it and, as and when MTD does happen, I'll be sitting pretty to cope with it.
My disgust is not with the idea of digital, it is with our useless Civil Service that can never deliver an IT project.
PS if the Powers that Be at AW read this, why do I get a constant feed of responses when I request a Daily Digest? Are you any better at IT than HMRC?
That is why I called it "dodgy" but if the director supplied some specific (say professional) service I believe that it is possible - would be interested in chapter and verse on this form someone better qualified to judge this!
The following came up in a previous AW thread (credit to the poster, Justin Bryant) in 2013;
“...It is possible for an employee or office holder to tender for work outside their normal duties, not as an employee or office holder but as a self-employed contractor. Any amounts payable in those circumstances will fall to be taken into account as Trading Income in arriving at the profit from the self-employment. They are not employment income....”
The Director has charged the company for work done as a sole trader, and declared that income (a bit dodgy but not unknown, and not Crime of the Century)
A book-keeping error by the company has meant that instead of being shown as expense (consultancy) the monies have been shown as Directors Loan. So a journal crediting Directors Loan, debiting consultancy should fix this. It takes away worries about S455, Corporation Tax etc.
So how then do you define "Accounts Preparation Software"?
I would say that it de-skills a lot of the job, but in essence what you would have handed over as a draft to be typed up (having put in all your knowledge and experience) you now hand over to the software instead of a secretary who would, say, have a wide carriage typewriter and specialist skills in putting figures into columns - by no means an easy thing.
But you surely would agree that when you select certain options in the software, it takes a load off, inserting phrases, paragraphs, statements etc.
My answers
A friend (ex teacher) got a job with the DWP during the pandemic and has hardly ever been into an office. His job is to train new people so literally he teaches them from the page he has just read.
I really despair at home badly our Country is run
On the whole I would rather be cleverer than the folks on the other side of the table, and put up with administrative hiccups. Surely this favours our clients' interests?
I suppose that when you left, it was still the Inland Revenue (which I left in 1984)
But is also sounds as if you left around the advent of Self Assessment which, by its nature, up-ended all previous systems. Administratively this was a Good Thing, as it codified entries on Tax Returns as database fields (Returns themselves had been largely ignored before, people send in Accounts in all sorts of formats which the Inspector converted into an Assessment).
Another change was that instead of a senior Inspector in each District 'tasting' all Accounts as they arrived and deciding which ones to accept and which to investigate, all Returns were processed straight away with a decision to be made later on which to investigate. This seems sensible but you can see how it cuts the tie with local knowledge.
But also don't forget that the Inland Revenue was intending to slim down to 13 regional offices when I joined in 1975. We can thank Ricky Tomlinson and his friends (he went to prison for this) for holding up the building of Centre 2 long enough for computerisation to be paused for reflection - a fascinating story.
So what we have now was an idea decades in the making.
Possibly my (now deceased) client used to trump all. Bob was a lovely chap and his figures were beautifully set out across two A4 pages (never data, just summaries of his 'book-keeping'). Nervy speech, really polite but we typically filed a provisional form then corrected to actual in February.
On more than one occasion he called on the 31st, back in the day when we were filing on paper (and I had 30 or so to take down after midnight and shove through the letterbox) but the worst was ten to Midnight - I did not pick up.
I concluded that Bob had a sexual thing going on, of the auto-erotic variety, and loved the thrill from the risk of being fined. He was found dead in his house and it was really sad to lose him.
Some PIAs are still loveable
These days I pre-announce that the final deadline for information is 31 October, that the 'office' will be closed from 20 December to 3 January (I work from home) and I start firing clients in November. This after all does give them the chance to go elsewhere so I have no obligation.
For good reasons this year was a bit abnormal, but January has been brilliant since I started this practice. We still have VAT Month and got several new clients this year, but I get a Christmas and don't have large numbers hanging over my head.
In April I will be putting the hammer down - for the majority, 2022/23 will be completed using FreeAgent, harvesting the data back to April 2022. So once I am in charge of the data, the issues melts away
I wish I did have magic words for the reluctant - so far kindly persuasion has brought in about 70% of the 'Target Audience" among our clients, and they actually love it when they see how much better things are.
There is a cadre of clients for whom it will not be suitable, such as a client of 38 years who is in his 80s. I'll stick with him until one of us drops off the twig - he has been loyal to me and I will be loyal to him.
After January there will be more time, and I will move from 'sign up' to 'education' as much as possible.
Finally there are some A-holes who for many years have held back their figures until the last minute, for whom it will be My Way or The Highway. I don't owe them the loyalty they have not shown to me. If they sign up, problem solved. If they leave, problem solved.
What gets my goat in these online threads is the constant, un-mitigating negativity. "Seeing Opportunity" does not equal exploitation.
Since 1984 I have only ever increased fees by inflation (aforesaid client is an example). Who else on here can say that? But my profit has gone up because all the efficiencies fall on my side of the table.
No profiteering - where did I say that I would increase fees? Persuading clients to get a NatWest or Mettle account gets them free software, so everyone wins
As a Brexiteer, I know that I would have lost with good grace. So it is now - as so many times before, HMRC has acted like The Wizard of Oz but not followed through, leaving those of us who 'responded to the call' hanging.
The only regret is that the pressure to go digital is now off, but I've thought about it. Except for a few clients such as the 80 year one who's been with me 38 years, I'm going to continue putting the hammer down and convert (in our case, to FreeAgent).
In 2024 my practice will be 40 years old and I'll be 68. Looks like I'll have a nice easy time of it and, as and when MTD does happen, I'll be sitting pretty to cope with it.
My disgust is not with the idea of digital, it is with our useless Civil Service that can never deliver an IT project.
PS if the Powers that Be at AW read this, why do I get a constant feed of responses when I request a Daily Digest? Are you any better at IT than HMRC?
That is why I called it "dodgy" but if the director supplied some specific (say professional) service I believe that it is possible - would be interested in chapter and verse on this form someone better qualified to judge this!
The following came up in a previous AW thread (credit to the poster, Justin Bryant) in 2013;
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim00730.htm
“...It is possible for an employee or office holder to tender for work outside their normal duties, not as an employee or office holder but as a self-employed contractor. Any amounts payable in those circumstances will fall to be taken into account as Trading Income in arriving at the profit from the self-employment. They are not employment income....”
Is this not really simple?
The Director has charged the company for work done as a sole trader, and declared that income (a bit dodgy but not unknown, and not Crime of the Century)
A book-keeping error by the company has meant that instead of being shown as expense (consultancy) the monies have been shown as Directors Loan. So a journal crediting Directors Loan, debiting consultancy should fix this. It takes away worries about S455, Corporation Tax etc.
So how then do you define "Accounts Preparation Software"?
I would say that it de-skills a lot of the job, but in essence what you would have handed over as a draft to be typed up (having put in all your knowledge and experience) you now hand over to the software instead of a secretary who would, say, have a wide carriage typewriter and specialist skills in putting figures into columns - by no means an easy thing.
But you surely would agree that when you select certain options in the software, it takes a load off, inserting phrases, paragraphs, statements etc.