I am amazed that there are people out there who can't follow BPT properly. However, BPT reminds users to back-up and to check year end totals - thoroughly.
I believe you may have passed the point of no return. You should have found a back-up before the P60 was run, and then restored from that point.
Then process the EYU, then run the P60 again.
If they can't even follow BPT, what hope did you have of finding a back-up somewhere ! You could find the PDF P60 and reproduce or edit one on adobe acrobat. Or do a manual version, a lot of work, charge them for their incompetence, it just might concentrate the mind.
This is the unintended result of poorly drafted legislation. There may be 100,000 households, perhaps many more where the sons and daughters are unable to get on to the housing ladder or afford rents in their local area after graduation.
All the general publications mention the word 'Lodgers'. The newspapers use the word 'make' where parents receive up to £7,500 a year in a larger home from contributions to household expenses.
Somebody will have to take the matter to the high court if they want to argue that family members who are not owners, should be excluded.
I don't believe that families even know that they are required to report contributions of over £7,500 per year.
South of Watford, a rent of £130 a week inclusive of everything is an absolute bargain - in reality, dirt cheap.
I don't suppose the Chancellor would have had the guts to announce to the House, that parents with grown up children would have to declare income over £7.5k during the summer budget statement. 3 children paying Mum & Dad £50 per week each, and they are over the limit !
Basil,
Thanks for posting this link to the one I was involved in on 4th June.
I did cover the ground, but ducked the argument based on 'ambiguity in re-drafting' and whether one was 'satisfied in doing so'. On 2nd thoughts, I had also come to your conclusion, not so eloquently detailed as you have conveyed in your humble opinion, that a business loan for working capital may be utilised for a business purpose of many sorts, and the interest thereon would be allowable.
. . . . cheers . . . . Sybil's do a great job behind the scenes
Indeed, ambiguous re-drafting. Someone has updated the manual because they thought that the layman would not understand the meaning of capital element in the earlier BIMs.
If you are satisfied and can obtain reliable b'fwd mileage records from clients, claim the finance interest when comparing bus miles as a proportion of total miles recorded on the vehicle odometer during the accounting period, or on disposal.
So is the procedure initially to write to the creditors (including the HMRC in one case) and explain the company is not in a position to settle the debts and that the Company proposes to apply for a dissolution.
That then puts the ball into the creditors court for them to object and apply to wind the company up.
Out of interest who bears the cost of all this when the Company has no money?
If the Company is dissolved can they set up a new company?
In both cases I think both clients would actually be better to trade as sole traders if they decided to try to carry on; so cease trading as a limited company and start as a sole trader; is that OK?
At least there is no O/D DLA to force out of the directors for settlement. That's a good start.
When wrting to creditors, I did point out the three items that you should cover, in particular a very good reason for the failure of those businesses to generate enough income to settle their liabilities.
Starting all over again with another company with the same objects and activities would not be ethical, would it?
If they start off again as sole traders for the same business activity, at least future creditors may have a bit more leverage. Whether it is OK or not, is a matter that you should consider most carefully. If they (the past directors) think they can do this all over again, and then claim individual bankruptcy - Get out of there.
This situation is beginning smell a bit, only you will know. Don't get sucked in by sweet talk.
Regrettably, this is generally the case. If they say that they can trade out of it, be damn sure to monitor that on a monthly basis. No messing about.
Annoyingly, in most situations one has to say goodbye to accrued or unpaid fees. A formal resignation is necessary, and one at CH online if one was also secretary.
Anne, I'm totally in agreement with Legerman.
If you are doing the winding up and strike off for those two companies, you will have to adopt the policies and procedures of an insolvency practitioner.
Although, the directors will not like it, only you will have authority on their bank accounts for any distribution to creditors. They will do the mandates for you to save time.
The revenue do not want to wind-up the company in the courts, nor does that creditor when claiming their debts - it's all too much hassle and expense. If they do decide to do it for you, the official receiver will take over after the judgment.
As their reporting accountant, you must initially write to each creditor and tell them what you are doing, and why it is necessary and the reasons for failure.
If the DLA is overdrawn, you will have to make a serious attempt to collect a full settlement.
After that it would be courteous to let them know the date that you intend to apply for dissolution, say 28 days hence, and on the date you actually do it, send a copy to them. The debt management service at HMRC are probably chasing, so write to them in the 1st instance.
Good luck - I have not had to do this, so it is new territory. I don't see any reason why you should not do so, and at worst case scenario, you'll be told on the way by HMRC or their agents that they don't approve of your action, due to qualification. However, do they have any choice other than to fund a liquidation and winding-up from the public purse.
This work will cost you some admin time - you are clearly a very generous lady.
John, I am urging the OP to get some sort of direction, a couple of hours and both the accounts & expenses and an SA Return will be fixed.
Yes, agreed, I have been a tad over firm, but have not accused the OP of being reckless. He does not know, so how could he have behaved recklessly. This is a very common circumstance.
I wish him every success with his new business, he sounds like a bright chap, so once some numbers have been produced, he will see the general principles and will know how to proceed until year end.
Ah, Please DISREGARD my advise,
I had been looking through IHT205 and IHT400 Return, and more by good luck that good judgement, the quarterly DOBs worked well for Lionfludesch's first post.
You may have to phone the agents support line to clear this up, Phoning Long Benton for contributions records may not work if you can't confirm the suffix.
Chesca wrote:
I will claim the expenses through the company, however, as I will do it at current date, presumably I have not received the benefit/expense in the 5th April 2016 tax year so will not apply to this SA. (Also, for those who mentioned, not an issue re profit there is profit available in the company and the company year end is not until December)
I regret to say Chesca: That statement of yours is complete and utter drivel. The fact that you company's year end has been set at the end of December 2016 has no bearing on your completion of SA for individuals.
You should employ an accountant to prepare a quarterly management accounts period for this company as soon as possible, this will be for the company's 1st quarter to 31st March. From those results, he will be able to determine a dividend payable after making a provision for CT thereon. You may then have a meeting with yourself, preferably with him in attendance, and then, you may properly decide the level of dividend you may take.
Paying a dividend, merely by virtue of surplus cash in the bank is unsatisfactory, and contrary to the companies act. To declare a dividend you are required to demonstrate that it is paid out of profits on the date the decision is made) You may be a sole director without a secretary and without employees, yet you are required to observe quite a number of rules regarding the conduct and management of this incorporated business.
Your accountant will instruct you how to observe the basics for micro entity company compliance.
My answers
I am amazed that there are people out there who can't follow BPT properly. However, BPT reminds users to back-up and to check year end totals - thoroughly.
I believe you may have passed the point of no return. You should have found a back-up before the P60 was run, and then restored from that point.
Then process the EYU, then run the P60 again.
If they can't even follow BPT, what hope did you have of finding a back-up somewhere ! You could find the PDF P60 and reproduce or edit one on adobe acrobat. Or do a manual version, a lot of work, charge them for their incompetence, it just might concentrate the mind.
This is the unintended result of poorly drafted legislation. There may be 100,000 households, perhaps many more where the sons and daughters are unable to get on to the housing ladder or afford rents in their local area after graduation.
All the general publications mention the word 'Lodgers'. The newspapers use the word 'make' where parents receive up to £7,500 a year in a larger home from contributions to household expenses.
Somebody will have to take the matter to the high court if they want to argue that family members who are not owners, should be excluded.
I don't believe that families even know that they are required to report contributions of over £7,500 per year.
South of Watford, a rent of £130 a week inclusive of everything is an absolute bargain - in reality, dirt cheap.
I don't suppose the Chancellor would have had the guts to announce to the House, that parents with grown up children would have to declare income over £7.5k during the summer budget statement. 3 children paying Mum & Dad £50 per week each, and they are over the limit !
Basil,
Thanks for posting this link to the one I was involved in on 4th June.
I did cover the ground, but ducked the argument based on 'ambiguity in re-drafting' and whether one was 'satisfied in doing so'. On 2nd thoughts, I had also come to your conclusion, not so eloquently detailed as you have conveyed in your humble opinion, that a business loan for working capital may be utilised for a business purpose of many sorts, and the interest thereon would be allowable.
. . . . cheers . . . . Sybil's do a great job behind the scenes
Indeed, ambiguous re-drafting. Someone has updated the manual because they thought that the layman would not understand the meaning of capital element in the earlier BIMs.
If you are satisfied and can obtain reliable b'fwd mileage records from clients, claim the finance interest when comparing bus miles as a proportion of total miles recorded on the vehicle odometer during the accounting period, or on disposal.
At least there is no O/D DLA to force out of the directors for settlement. That's a good start.
When wrting to creditors, I did point out the three items that you should cover, in particular a very good reason for the failure of those businesses to generate enough income to settle their liabilities.
Starting all over again with another company with the same objects and activities would not be ethical, would it?
If they start off again as sole traders for the same business activity, at least future creditors may have a bit more leverage. Whether it is OK or not, is a matter that you should consider most carefully. If they (the past directors) think they can do this all over again, and then claim individual bankruptcy - Get out of there.
This situation is beginning smell a bit, only you will know. Don't get sucked in by sweet talk.
Regrettably, this is generally the case. If they say that they can trade out of it, be damn sure to monitor that on a monthly basis. No messing about.
Annoyingly, in most situations one has to say goodbye to accrued or unpaid fees. A formal resignation is necessary, and one at CH online if one was also secretary.
Anne, I'm totally in agreement with Legerman.
If you are doing the winding up and strike off for those two companies, you will have to adopt the policies and procedures of an insolvency practitioner.
Although, the directors will not like it, only you will have authority on their bank accounts for any distribution to creditors. They will do the mandates for you to save time.
The revenue do not want to wind-up the company in the courts, nor does that creditor when claiming their debts - it's all too much hassle and expense. If they do decide to do it for you, the official receiver will take over after the judgment.
As their reporting accountant, you must initially write to each creditor and tell them what you are doing, and why it is necessary and the reasons for failure.
If the DLA is overdrawn, you will have to make a serious attempt to collect a full settlement.
After that it would be courteous to let them know the date that you intend to apply for dissolution, say 28 days hence, and on the date you actually do it, send a copy to them. The debt management service at HMRC are probably chasing, so write to them in the 1st instance.
Good luck - I have not had to do this, so it is new territory. I don't see any reason why you should not do so, and at worst case scenario, you'll be told on the way by HMRC or their agents that they don't approve of your action, due to qualification. However, do they have any choice other than to fund a liquidation and winding-up from the public purse.
This work will cost you some admin time - you are clearly a very generous lady.
John, I am urging the OP to get some sort of direction, a couple of hours and both the accounts & expenses and an SA Return will be fixed.
Yes, agreed, I have been a tad over firm, but have not accused the OP of being reckless. He does not know, so how could he have behaved recklessly. This is a very common circumstance.
I wish him every success with his new business, he sounds like a bright chap, so once some numbers have been produced, he will see the general principles and will know how to proceed until year end.
Ah, Please DISREGARD my advise,
I had been looking through IHT205 and IHT400 Return, and more by good luck that good judgement, the quarterly DOBs worked well for Lionfludesch's first post.
You may have to phone the agents support line to clear this up, Phoning Long Benton for contributions records may not work if you can't confirm the suffix.
Chesca wrote:
I will claim the expenses through the company, however, as I will do it at current date, presumably I have not received the benefit/expense in the 5th April 2016 tax year so will not apply to this SA. (Also, for those who mentioned, not an issue re profit there is profit available in the company and the company year end is not until December)
I regret to say Chesca: That statement of yours is complete and utter drivel. The fact that you company's year end has been set at the end of December 2016 has no bearing on your completion of SA for individuals.
You should employ an accountant to prepare a quarterly management accounts period for this company as soon as possible, this will be for the company's 1st quarter to 31st March. From those results, he will be able to determine a dividend payable after making a provision for CT thereon. You may then have a meeting with yourself, preferably with him in attendance, and then, you may properly decide the level of dividend you may take.
Paying a dividend, merely by virtue of surplus cash in the bank is unsatisfactory, and contrary to the companies act. To declare a dividend you are required to demonstrate that it is paid out of profits on the date the decision is made) You may be a sole director without a secretary and without employees, yet you are required to observe quite a number of rules regarding the conduct and management of this incorporated business.
Your accountant will instruct you how to observe the basics for micro entity company compliance.