So will the 6 month exempted categories (VAT groups etc) stili be able to use the existing HMRC online VAT return facility post 31/03/19 or what? This has been billed as being retained only for non MTD voluntarily registered businesses below the VAT threshold!
Well the new link disappeared from the Govt Gateway page for a time yesterday and when we eventually did relocate it , the service was unavailable. Was functioning later in the day, but this morning off line again.
Change poorly advertised and managed and still flaky. What new HMRC?
Apart from MCB POS issue with availability of ER post resignation, what about the potential for the outstanding indebtedness relating the future tranches, if providing a 30% or more interest in rights as a company creditor, anyway meaning that the POS cannot meet a capital treatment condition as vendor still then thereby connected to the company?
Thanks. As you see in the interim, I did work it out for myself. Simples it is not!
I just reiterate my earlier comment. If simple things are just too hard to undertake without considerable time and effort, in the end people will tend to abandon the attempt.
Can't even readily see how I edit my previous post for typos. Just about sums it up, really. Such functions should just be plainly "there"!
Post-scriptum. Eventually found out how by trial & error. Extraordinarily roundabout & clumsy. Should just be another button on the post. Indicative I fear.
My first post on the new site. Only an occasional contributor but was a regular visitor. Not since the change. It really is hard work and perserverance doesn't really generate any significant return. If my personal experience is general, then it cannot really be dismissed as "teething troubles" as in order to get old customers to adapt to new methods, there has to be some expectation that persistence will be rewarded, but the lack of common ground between old and new set ups reduces any belief that that will readily be possible.
Others have speculated that you (as Sift Group) are really interested in the users who are fully familiar with the newer technologies, social media and portable hardwares etc etc. If so, then you may have ensured a better future platform for them, but you are thereby unlikely to retain the rest of us. Possibly in the long run, you are not too concerned over that.
Oddly enough as a tax bod, I can see this website's recent developments as analagous in many ways to HMRCs contortions in trying to slough off what they perceive as their old skin and metamorphosing into purveyors of the Digital in MTD. It is an overweaning confidence, if not obsession, with the new and its alleged possibilites and attempting to get there as rapidly as possible without considering whether any of the old still has utility and function. Baby and bathwater.
I would refer you to HMRC commentary on the operation of the S.464C (6) exclusion at CTM61642.
Their emphasis is that the repayment itself should give rise to an IT charge (even if no tax payable eg in BR div situation) on the participator to which the original loan relates and they are quite specific on that, to the extent of distinguishing the circumstance of a crediting of rent, as that is not in itself per se immediately taxable, just potentially so as part of a subsequent calculation. Equally in that para they comment specifically on the open question left at the end of the Aweb thread I linked, to say they do not consider the credit of a dividend previously paid out in cash to the loan account as qualifying for the (6) exclusion as the repayment that it represents is not itself taxable.
So I am not so sanguine as you that the crediting of expenses will undoubtedly qualify as taxable for the purposes of the exclusion, at least from HMRC interpretation of the statute.
Since the introduction of the anti- Bed & Breakfasting rules.
If you want to "repay " it by so-called book entry & are looking at loans/repayts in xs of £5k/£20K, then that credit has to be taxable to be effective for s.455 purposes if further withdrawals follow. Hence salary or div credits fine, expenses or other non-taxable credit, then not in circs where anti-B&B rules applicable.
My answers
So will the 6 month exempted categories (VAT groups etc) stili be able to use the existing HMRC online VAT return facility post 31/03/19 or what? This has been billed as being retained only for non MTD voluntarily registered businesses below the VAT threshold!
Well the new link disappeared from the Govt Gateway page for a time yesterday and when we eventually did relocate it , the service was unavailable. Was functioning later in the day, but this morning off line again.
Change poorly advertised and managed and still flaky. What new HMRC?
OK . Thanks for that clarification.
Apart from MCB POS issue with availability of ER post resignation, what about the potential for the outstanding indebtedness relating the future tranches, if providing a 30% or more interest in rights as a company creditor, anyway meaning that the POS cannot meet a capital treatment condition as vendor still then thereby connected to the company?
Thanks. As you see in the interim, I did work it out for myself. Simples it is not!
I just reiterate my earlier comment. If simple things are just too hard to undertake without considerable time and effort, in the end people will tend to abandon the attempt.
Can't even readily see how I edit my previous post for typos. Just about sums it up, really. Such functions should just be plainly "there"!
Post-scriptum. Eventually found out how by trial & error. Extraordinarily roundabout & clumsy. Should just be another button on the post. Indicative I fear.
My first post on the new site. Only an occasional contributor but was a regular visitor. Not since the change. It really is hard work and perserverance doesn't really generate any significant return. If my personal experience is general, then it cannot really be dismissed as "teething troubles" as in order to get old customers to adapt to new methods, there has to be some expectation that persistence will be rewarded, but the lack of common ground between old and new set ups reduces any belief that that will readily be possible.
Others have speculated that you (as Sift Group) are really interested in the users who are fully familiar with the newer technologies, social media and portable hardwares etc etc. If so, then you may have ensured a better future platform for them, but you are thereby unlikely to retain the rest of us. Possibly in the long run, you are not too concerned over that.
Oddly enough as a tax bod, I can see this website's recent developments as analagous in many ways to HMRCs contortions in trying to slough off what they perceive as their old skin and metamorphosing into purveyors of the Digital in MTD. It is an overweaning confidence, if not obsession, with the new and its alleged possibilites and attempting to get there as rapidly as possible without considering whether any of the old still has utility and function. Baby and bathwater.
I think we do need to agonize in some cases
at least a little!
I would refer you to HMRC commentary on the operation of the S.464C (6) exclusion at CTM61642.
Their emphasis is that the repayment itself should give rise to an IT charge (even if no tax payable eg in BR div situation) on the participator to which the original loan relates and they are quite specific on that, to the extent of distinguishing the circumstance of a crediting of rent, as that is not in itself per se immediately taxable, just potentially so as part of a subsequent calculation. Equally in that para they comment specifically on the open question left at the end of the Aweb thread I linked, to say they do not consider the credit of a dividend previously paid out in cash to the loan account as qualifying for the (6) exclusion as the repayment that it represents is not itself taxable.
So I am not so sanguine as you that the crediting of expenses will undoubtedly qualify as taxable for the purposes of the exclusion, at least from HMRC interpretation of the statute.
Simple?
I don't think everyone thinks it is as simple and straightforward as you evidently believe eg
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/question/loans-participators
"Easily avoidable" - not so simple
Since the introduction of the anti- Bed & Breakfasting rules.
If you want to "repay " it by so-called book entry & are looking at loans/repayts in xs of £5k/£20K, then that credit has to be taxable to be effective for s.455 purposes if further withdrawals follow. Hence salary or div credits fine, expenses or other non-taxable credit, then not in circs where anti-B&B rules applicable.