Has anyone else tried to call the Sage helpline? It very clearly states on their website that they are offering extended support on the 6th & 7th April between 8 am and 1 pm but when I try the agent priority helpline, the 'offices are now closed' message is there. I have tried other Sage numbers but all go to the same message; that they are closed.
I too, like ridgways, have tried to submit an end of year return yesterday and today and get the same message. I also tried my first EAS yesterday and got the same message. On the face of it, Sage are blocking the submissions, so when are they to tell us what is going on???
The previous post to yours doesn't deserve a comment so I won't but thank you for yours :-)
As your comment came through I was already posting regarding the HMRC 'Get ready to operate PAYE in real time' video which I have just watched. This may be of interest to Kazmc and Herring.
The HMRC video was sent via e-mail link on 8th March and if you can get to watch it, you may find the section on the EPS interesting and I quote:
"HMRC know from the regular FPS how much the PAYE/NI contributions liability is. The EPS is only submitted when you need to let them know of any alterations to this liability, for example, recovering statutory payments or letting HMRC know that a nil payment is due."
I read this to mean that if there is no PAYE/NI payment due in the tax period, then submit an EPS. Which was my original understanding, which is contradictory to what Rebecca has said to this thread throughout. Our Sage software actually asks us to do this as part of the EPS screen, that is why I kept asking the question in this forum and called Sage and the RTI helpline on several occasions.
If anyway has the time or the inclination to listen to this video, then I would welcome their interpretation on this. If I am wrong, then that is ok as it means that ultimately, my clients are being well looked after and I haven't lost my nerve to question things I don't fully understand.
There is a live Q&A session on Thursday 14th March from 14:30 to 15:30 where HMRC staff will be available to take questions.
Hello Karen, my advice to you would be to start preparing the payroll now as opposed to leaving it until the End of March. This will buy you time to obtain confirmation (if you need to as it seems you have that anyway) from the employers prior to submitting the final FPS. Returns can be filed in this tax year.
We only have one employer in the pilot, so I have started all the March payrolls now (including Director only payrolls), updating, preparing the P35 return, sending this out for checking and signature and giving them a date to return the form back to me. I intend filing the EOY's before the end of March so that I can focus on the RTI submissions (EAS, then FPS/EPS) after 6th April.
And thank you Kazmc for reminding us all that we are in this together and to seek help and understanding when it is not always clear is a good thing. Thank you Rebecca for continuing to contribute to this thread. And Euan, perhaps re-read your responses and in future be a little more sympathetic to those of us who are dealing with conflicting information and can't just change software at the drop of a hat.
I know I am harping on about this, but consider this text from the HMRC letter sent to employers earlier this year entitled 'Paying PAYE electronically for the income tax year 2013/14:
'When no payment is due for a month or quarter
RTI employers
'n RTI employer is one that has submitted a FPS and/or an EAS. RTI employers who have no payment to make for a single or multiple months should tell us by completing and submitting an EPS for the period(s) concerned. Fill in the box for No payment due as no employees or subcontractors paid in this pay period and enter the relevant dates at the No payment dates boxes and/or the Period of inactivity dates boxes as appropriate. If you don't do this we may make a specified charge and seek payment for each period concerned.'
Taking the first two sentences - This implies that if there is a nil return, then an EPS should be submitted. End of.
Taking the next two sentences - this now refers to nil payments to employees and talks about period of inactivity! And what box does this refer to? Is it generalising about 3rd party software or assumes use of the BPT?
We have one company on the pilot from 6th March; during the EPS submission, Sage software categorically asks you to select the checkbox if there is no payment due to HMRC. Now correct me if I am wrong (please!) but this does not relate to employees nil pay but to what is owed to HMRC.
Is there any wonder we are all so confused when the HMRC documentaiton is trying to tell us two different things in one paragraph.
Rebecca, please can you take a lool at this whole area again and report back?
Rebecca, thanks for the clarification in your post, which makes perfect sense.
What truly concerns me is that the RTI helpline told me exactly the same as the Sage helpline and I was even asked to speak to the RTI Press Office for further information (which I didn't do as I thought it inappropriate!). It certainly will make life easier just filing an EPS when those certain conditions are met eg statutory payments, CIS/NI deductions and no payments to employees.
On another point, what is the acceptable time between filing the EAS (which we have to do with Sage software) amd the first FPS? I ask because I do have a number of weekly payrolls and may have to submit over the weekend of the 6th/7th to allow for processing on the 8th April.
You know what Euan, let's just wait and see what happens. In less than six weeks time, it should all become blatantly clear! I am afraid that I have to believe the RTI helpline and Sage otherwise I will just lose the will to live. Other readers views/understanding would be appreciated!!
Mr Mischief, you put it so well; this thread just goes to highlight that we are still in a pilot and that things are constantly changing and even with the best will in the world, we can't read and digest it all. I agree with you re an RTI hotline, but on the courses I have attended, we were told that there would be no extra support.
To be honest, I need to concenterate on getting therough the M12 payrolls and end of years and then hope that RTI will just be a smooth and obvious transition and that our software will guide us through.
Thank you for your post Euan regarding the filing of an EPS. We use Sage software and I have just spoken to the helpline to confirm my understanding.
The EPS filed through Sage specifically asks the user to select a checkbox if there is no payment to HMRC. Additionally, may I quote from an article written by Linda Pullan (Payroll Alliance) and subsequent Q&A session ' You will need to provide nil submissions via the Employer Payment Summary (EPS) to indicate that no PAYE/NI is due'. So in two separate documents, it is very clear that there is the need to do this.
What Sage have also said is that this is still a pilot and our understanding of how things are going to work may change tomorrow, so their advice is to keep checking out the websites.
My answers
RTI & Sage software
Has anyone else tried to call the Sage helpline? It very clearly states on their website that they are offering extended support on the 6th & 7th April between 8 am and 1 pm but when I try the agent priority helpline, the 'offices are now closed' message is there. I have tried other Sage numbers but all go to the same message; that they are closed.
I too, like ridgways, have tried to submit an end of year return yesterday and today and get the same message. I also tried my first EAS yesterday and got the same message. On the face of it, Sage are blocking the submissions, so when are they to tell us what is going on???
Unworthy
The previous post to yours doesn't deserve a comment so I won't but thank you for yours :-)
As your comment came through I was already posting regarding the HMRC 'Get ready to operate PAYE in real time' video which I have just watched. This may be of interest to Kazmc and Herring.
The HMRC video was sent via e-mail link on 8th March and if you can get to watch it, you may find the section on the EPS interesting and I quote:
"HMRC know from the regular FPS how much the PAYE/NI contributions liability is. The EPS is only submitted when you need to let them know of any alterations to this liability, for example, recovering statutory payments or letting HMRC know that a nil payment is due."
I read this to mean that if there is no PAYE/NI payment due in the tax period, then submit an EPS. Which was my original understanding, which is contradictory to what Rebecca has said to this thread throughout. Our Sage software actually asks us to do this as part of the EPS screen, that is why I kept asking the question in this forum and called Sage and the RTI helpline on several occasions.
If anyway has the time or the inclination to listen to this video, then I would welcome their interpretation on this. If I am wrong, then that is ok as it means that ultimately, my clients are being well looked after and I haven't lost my nerve to question things I don't fully understand.
There is a live Q&A session on Thursday 14th March from 14:30 to 15:30 where HMRC staff will be available to take questions.
Authorisation...
Hello Karen, my advice to you would be to start preparing the payroll now as opposed to leaving it until the End of March. This will buy you time to obtain confirmation (if you need to as it seems you have that anyway) from the employers prior to submitting the final FPS. Returns can be filed in this tax year.
We only have one employer in the pilot, so I have started all the March payrolls now (including Director only payrolls), updating, preparing the P35 return, sending this out for checking and signature and giving them a date to return the form back to me. I intend filing the EOY's before the end of March so that I can focus on the RTI submissions (EAS, then FPS/EPS) after 6th April.
Hope that helps :-)
Hazel
Closure
Thank you Rebecca.. again :-)
Ditto
And thank you Kazmc for reminding us all that we are in this together and to seek help and understanding when it is not always clear is a good thing. Thank you Rebecca for continuing to contribute to this thread. And Euan, perhaps re-read your responses and in future be a little more sympathetic to those of us who are dealing with conflicting information and can't just change software at the drop of a hat.
Kazmc comments re EPS and when to file
I know I am harping on about this, but consider this text from the HMRC letter sent to employers earlier this year entitled 'Paying PAYE electronically for the income tax year 2013/14:
'When no payment is due for a month or quarter
RTI employers
'n RTI employer is one that has submitted a FPS and/or an EAS. RTI employers who have no payment to make for a single or multiple months should tell us by completing and submitting an EPS for the period(s) concerned. Fill in the box for No payment due as no employees or subcontractors paid in this pay period and enter the relevant dates at the No payment dates boxes and/or the Period of inactivity dates boxes as appropriate. If you don't do this we may make a specified charge and seek payment for each period concerned.'
Taking the first two sentences - This implies that if there is a nil return, then an EPS should be submitted. End of.
Taking the next two sentences - this now refers to nil payments to employees and talks about period of inactivity! And what box does this refer to? Is it generalising about 3rd party software or assumes use of the BPT?
We have one company on the pilot from 6th March; during the EPS submission, Sage software categorically asks you to select the checkbox if there is no payment due to HMRC. Now correct me if I am wrong (please!) but this does not relate to employees nil pay but to what is owed to HMRC.
Is there any wonder we are all so confused when the HMRC documentaiton is trying to tell us two different things in one paragraph.
Rebecca, please can you take a lool at this whole area again and report back?
EPS confusion
Rebecca, thanks for the clarification in your post, which makes perfect sense.
What truly concerns me is that the RTI helpline told me exactly the same as the Sage helpline and I was even asked to speak to the RTI Press Office for further information (which I didn't do as I thought it inappropriate!). It certainly will make life easier just filing an EPS when those certain conditions are met eg statutory payments, CIS/NI deductions and no payments to employees.
On another point, what is the acceptable time between filing the EAS (which we have to do with Sage software) amd the first FPS? I ask because I do have a number of weekly payrolls and may have to submit over the weekend of the 6th/7th to allow for processing on the 8th April.
EPS confusion
You know what Euan, let's just wait and see what happens. In less than six weeks time, it should all become blatantly clear! I am afraid that I have to believe the RTI helpline and Sage otherwise I will just lose the will to live. Other readers views/understanding would be appreciated!!
RTI stuff
Mr Mischief, you put it so well; this thread just goes to highlight that we are still in a pilot and that things are constantly changing and even with the best will in the world, we can't read and digest it all. I agree with you re an RTI hotline, but on the courses I have attended, we were told that there would be no extra support.
To be honest, I need to concenterate on getting therough the M12 payrolls and end of years and then hope that RTI will just be a smooth and obvious transition and that our software will guide us through.
Thank you for your post Euan regarding the filing of an EPS. We use Sage software and I have just spoken to the helpline to confirm my understanding.
The EPS filed through Sage specifically asks the user to select a checkbox if there is no payment to HMRC. Additionally, may I quote from an article written by Linda Pullan (Payroll Alliance) and subsequent Q&A session ' You will need to provide nil submissions via the Employer Payment Summary (EPS) to indicate that no PAYE/NI is due'. So in two separate documents, it is very clear that there is the need to do this.
What Sage have also said is that this is still a pilot and our understanding of how things are going to work may change tomorrow, so their advice is to keep checking out the websites.