.. and what makes you think I have been 'converted to the dark side' - I think its going to be hell ... if it comes off that is.

Actually I'm quite hurt that you think I have been 'converted'.

I doubt many members have watched or attended committee events when this was first mooted.
At one I attended all the MP's did their best to put forward all the anti comments that we have all posted here over the years but the answer they got from HMRC was 'tough'.

We can all hope that it will go away or change (particularly the £10K limit) but we do need to at least 'be prepared'.

Listen to some of the accweb webinars and you will see that many accountants are already going down the route that johnjenkins has taken in getting as many as possible onto cloud if only to make the accountants life easier.

PS... all writers are asked to write about subjects that they dont necessarily agree with. There is also a set limit to the number of words.

On a personal side...some of the clients I work with have been with the firm over 40 years - I am not going to abandon them. Many clients are lovely but I know wont be able to cope on their own. I'd rather take on extra staff to help them.

I'm just not going to be able to get my subcontractors to comply. They dont issue invoices in the first place and have to wait for contractors to send them their reports which of course they lose if they are not on computers... and many arent.

Some in this thread seem to be saying that they will not act for those who dont want (or cant?) comply. If I take this stance what am I going to tell the client who has been with me for years, pays ontime - never any problem but I know wont be able to cope? 'Goodbye.. it was nice whilst it lasted'?

Bank streaming for all seems to be being put forward as the be all and end all however... setting up a separate business bank account (if you can that is... some banks are refusing and I dont mean for those who have bad credit ratings) costs (unless you use Co Op via FSB = free)

Last week I had a very tearful client on the phone who didnt understand/ couldnt work out how to log onto Accountancymanager despite being given instruction and there being a video (I've been trying to get all on e-signing for some time now). So I gave up and will be sending a paper return for signature which I will then submit by Taxfiler.

I've tried to get some clients who I think will be able to cope onto cloud software but I seem to spend hours teaching and amending what rubbish they have entered.. when they remember to do so.

But as others have said - there is no point in moaning. We knew the time would come and we just have to find a way that is best for our business, staff and particular type of client.

The first decision to make is 'who should stay and who should go?' Clients I meant - not staff.

I loved rboggon's idea of £1 submissions.
Johnjenkins comment re VAT limits gives some food for thought. Sometimes its only when you come to do the end of year accounts that you find out that the client exceeded the limit months ago and has to go back and register.
So possibly this quarterly submission fiasco could be useful in some respects? But only for income - too much grief for expenses as well.
For many clients best idea put forward is to look back at the 2021 and 2022 tax years and averaging etc - obviously the way to go.

Clearing out is something that many accountancy firms do and indeed should do in the first week of Feb after the stress of Jan is over but it needs to be handled with sensitivity.

We all know the 20: 80 split - 20% of clients bring in 80% of income. When you begin the process you need to start with that and then Sharon's matrix is a good idea. But you cant be too clinical.

As Tallula mentioned - my criteria is that if the client's name comes up on my mobile or calls the office and I think 'oh no' .. then they are on the list to go. However, some of those clients have recommended me to friends and colleagues and those clients have turned out to be very worthwhile. So what do you do.. dump the client who recommended you? What will they tell their friend who you really want to keep?

Cooper recommends focusing on the people who understand your value. How do you know which have valued your help during the pandemic? Do you ask them before they are dumped? I received a bunch of flowers last week from someone whom I didn’t think I'd given any more help than others. In fact, I hadn’t spoken to him. The card just said 'Thanks for just being there'.

I know we are in business to make money but many clients have been and are still going through a rough time and then to have their accountant dump them just at this moment when the government grants havent even finished is harsh and cruel. Especially if they have been with you for years.

And something that hasn’t been mentioned in the article is reputation. To a small town accountant reputation is key to attract the 'right' client. Will potentially 'good' clients want to come to an accountant who is known to get rid of you if you dont come up to scratch turnover-wise?

More than ever 'dumping' clients needs to be dealt with carefully and with sensitivity if you intend to do a clear out before Christmas.

I can only direct members to my comment here:

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/practice/general-practice/accountants-lo...

It starts:
HMRC have been a major pain. I'm currently hanging on the phone for someone in the VAT 'helpline' to answer as I need to :
1. change my agents address
2, get them to reauthenticate a client so I can submit this quarters VAT return. Been fine for years up until now and suddenly ... no period shown. Software providers says its not them.

I've already been cut off twice.

I've tried at different times of the day over last week so this morning decided just to ring and wait and wait.

>> as an update - I went in to my software the next day and all obligation periods for June had disappeared - even those that had been submitted.

All except one has now returned.

HMRC have been a major pain. I'm currently hanging on the phone for someone in the VAT 'helpline' to answer as I need to :
1. change my agents address
2, get them to reauthenticate a client so I can submit this quarters VAT return. Been fine for years up until now and suddenly ... no period shown. Software providers says its not them.

I've already been cut off twice.

I've tried at different times of the day over last week so this morning decided just to ring and wait and wait.

While I'm waiting I thought I'd read Rob's article and I notice that Critchlow says'
The reality is that if you have ‘mood hoovers’ in your client bank, get rid of them,” advised Critchlow. “Bless them on to somebody else. If they don’t hold the same values as you, or are disrespectful of your time or team, are they really a good fit?”

I got rid of my most painful clients some time ago now I am left with lovely ones and many have been with the firm for years. But some have now turned into what could be termed 'a pain' but that is only because they have been worried. I still have clients in the entertainment industry who have had no work since the beginning of lockdown.

I'm not giving up on them now

But I am going to say one thing... this last year has been nothing to what we are all going to face with MTD.

PS>>> I'm giving up - been cut off again.

Yes.. Paul - I know its not new but with the BBL being made so freely available there are going to be many who dont know the rules.

I have one now - the minute the money hit their bank account it was taken out as 'drawings'.

Before I ring HMRC and spend hours on the phone trying to get through can anyone else confirm Tornado and Sam's comment that clients will have to wait until Oct to get their refund?

I have two clients texting every day asking for the whereabouts of their CIS refunds and they are getting pretty desperate especially as 'all their mates' received their refunds within days of submission in April.
Mine were submitted 1st week May.

Also... one CIS client has admitted that he innocently declared the wrong amount. Do I submit an amended return with the correct amount which will mean client going to the end of the list for refunds or do I wait and let HMRC send an amended calculation?

Same as Bryan and 'I really should know this'... when I've told some of mine the reaction is .. that they will meet it when they have to.

To the vast majority of clients 2023 is years away and they have other things to worry about (such as surviving). All we can do is to ensure that our systems are up to date.

There is no way my paper receipts people will comply - I've not even thought about the CIS clients who, unless there is a quarterly tax refund just wont bother.

I'm more concerned about the clients who dont have a computer and even if they did wouldnt know how to turn it on.

Last year I tried to get clients on a CMS portal but they still send stuff by insecure email, still drop invoices and expenses off at the office and I've lost count of the number who still ask me for the bank sort code and acc number for HMRC payments even though they paid via BACS last year.

But I am doing as 'ireallyshouldknowit' is doing and doing a 'drip feed'. - so when MTD does eventually come in I am covered when they say.. 'I didnt know about this'.

If anyone wants a reminder of what a nightmare it is potentially going to be revisit Rebecca's article here.. she counted 20 returns for some people. Note: 210 comments.

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/mtd-monthly-reports-may-...

Just a thought... I am wondering whether some of these companies are those who have taken advantage of the covid job retention grants, have received their money and closed down so they wont have to pay the money back (I've heard of at least two local businesses who have done that).

None of my company clients have closed down and neither do any of them look like doing so; but that doesn not say that many have not been hit - they have but they have all been in businesses that possibly havent been affected as much as others. My film producers/directors/entertainers etc and commercial landlords have been hit but have managed to get other work or gained additional government or local council help.

In fact I have taken on and incorporated companies.

Closing a company that you have spent ages building up is always very sad and more so if there is nothing you could do to stop it such as under covid. In these circumstances an accountants advice is invaluable in helping make the process as painless as possible.