The short answer is that this will always happen - no matter what you do. I've just had to agree to do one this week because the event is happening this weekend and the supplier sent their invoice on time (over a month ago), it was just our people who botched the process. I called it when we were spending more time discussing it than it would actually take to validate and make the payment.
The long answer is that you need to have a look at your P2P process and see whether these requests are a symptom of an issue within that process. In this particular case, no-one raised a purchase order up front which would have solved all these problems, and then someone else sat on the invoice for a while, and then it was in a department where the approver often doesn't do his approvals on time. So we have three training requirements to deal with as the process itself works really well unless people don't follow it. We've recently updated systems and made this whole process much easier - so it is frustrating when these fly-ins turn up - particularly when it is because the process hasn't been followed.
I do this. It's made much easier by working during the day in a larger charity - there is so much to understand about charities and I don't think I would have realised half of it if I was just working in industry. The key things for me have been making sure I'm happy with the people I am going to be a trustee alongside, having a small team of people doing different jobs on the finance side, and implementing good practice. We no longer make cheque payments (thank you Covid!). We implemented ExpensePlus which I would highly recommend. This has eliminated the need to keep copious amounts of paperwork, allows expenditure to be approved by the appropriate person electronically, and many many other benefits. I highly recommend it as it has changed my life as a Treasurer - and it's built so intuitively that it's easy for non-financial people to use. My aim is to set everything up so that someone who doesn't have my financial background could take over the role - as finding someone who could do it has been impossible. In the meantime by automating I'm reducing my workload.
The point I took from your posting is that they were doing ok and now they aren't - so clearly something has changed. That is your starting point for the conversation with them. Tell them exactly that - that it isn't like them to make this many errors (we all make some errors - we are only human) and you are concerned that there may be a problem - and you'd like to work out what it is and what to do about it. It sounds like this person needs support rather than castigation but you can't do that until you understand what might be causing the mistakes. I've seen all sorts of reasons over the years - from failing eyesight, to too much pressure at work, to issues at home - but usually there is a way to work with them to solve the problem. If they've been a reliable member of staff up until now I think you have a responsibility to find out what the problem is. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away just isn't an option.
OK, so your friend has been a lousy client - and the consensus is not to mix business with pleasure as you've also noted. But has he been a lousy friend before? And is it really right to cut off a friend at a time when you might need one because he made a mistake? He might not even realise that what he said was insensitive. I have a colleague who just wanted to throw herself into her work as a distraction from her grief. It's up to you of course, but you have reacted hastily and I would recommend at least a conversation to explain how hurt you are and why you have cut him off. Friendship is valuable and you need to be sure you are doing the right thing by ending one.
There are plenty of systems out there to look at - but I would always start with those which are winning awards with AccountingWeb! There are many newcomers in the last few years which are all cloud-based and designed to integrate with anything so it's worth doing some research. It sounds as though investment now in the right system will pay back later, or you could end up in a right old mess, so making sure you have the right software in place might be worth investing a little more than you had originally imagined.
Some names to look at - iplicit, Xledger, AccountsIQ, Dynamics Business Central, Sage Intaact
Not sure if I'm missing something here - but I'm assuming that the client holds the property so that it generates an income - so I would assume that at some point the money makes its way from the agent into her bank account. That's your starting point for figures. I'd also imagine that the property agents pay the money over on a regular basis along with a statement showing what deductions have been made from the rent for the property. I'd also imagine that the client agrees the level of rent charged (whether annual or some other basis). (I'm basing my imagining on what a local agent does with regard to a property let out by a charity - so imagination based on facts in another case.) If your client isn't giving you this information maybe she doesn't understand what you are asking for - I would start with some questions along the lines of my imaginations above to understand what happens on a regular basis and then I'm pretty sure that there is some paperwork to uncover.
Apparently HMRC have issued a lawsuit against me and there is a warrant for my arrest!!! If so the police aren't doing very well as I go home every evening!
But joking aside, if you're not switched on, and let's face it, if we're on here then we probably are, that could be a very scary message to receive. Something needs to be done to stop these people preying on the vulnerable.
The best way to approach this is from the position of what could go wrong. If there is an incident, the ICO would always consider whether you should have known better - so the fact that you are asking questions shows that you realise that something could go wrong. So if something did go wrong, should you have known better? Things are still permissible as long as the appropriate precautions are in place. So if you allow staff to take paperwork out of the office, then there ought to be something in place to tell staff what their responsibility is with regard to that information and what they are and are not permitted to do (e.g. someone mentioned about leaving paperwork in a car unattended - you might want to stop staff from doing that). You may therefore end up with more policies - writing things down is a key part of GDPR! I hope that helps a little.
I've never really understood why software suppliers think that open period accounting is a good thing! E.g. you are closing the accounts and know that an invoice hasn't been received yet - so you do an accrual. Then the invoice arrives, dated in the prior month so you enter it and suddenly you have duplicated that cost as you now have an accrual and the invoice. Whenever I'm looking for an accounting system now my first question is whether or not you can close the periods! I'm really not a fan of the approach of dating the invoices the 1st of the next month as invoice date in my book, should be the invoice date.
My answers
I will refer the next employee who asks if we can increase the mileage payments to this thread as an explanation as to why not!
The short answer is that this will always happen - no matter what you do. I've just had to agree to do one this week because the event is happening this weekend and the supplier sent their invoice on time (over a month ago), it was just our people who botched the process. I called it when we were spending more time discussing it than it would actually take to validate and make the payment.
The long answer is that you need to have a look at your P2P process and see whether these requests are a symptom of an issue within that process. In this particular case, no-one raised a purchase order up front which would have solved all these problems, and then someone else sat on the invoice for a while, and then it was in a department where the approver often doesn't do his approvals on time. So we have three training requirements to deal with as the process itself works really well unless people don't follow it. We've recently updated systems and made this whole process much easier - so it is frustrating when these fly-ins turn up - particularly when it is because the process hasn't been followed.
Good luck!
I do this. It's made much easier by working during the day in a larger charity - there is so much to understand about charities and I don't think I would have realised half of it if I was just working in industry. The key things for me have been making sure I'm happy with the people I am going to be a trustee alongside, having a small team of people doing different jobs on the finance side, and implementing good practice. We no longer make cheque payments (thank you Covid!). We implemented ExpensePlus which I would highly recommend. This has eliminated the need to keep copious amounts of paperwork, allows expenditure to be approved by the appropriate person electronically, and many many other benefits. I highly recommend it as it has changed my life as a Treasurer - and it's built so intuitively that it's easy for non-financial people to use. My aim is to set everything up so that someone who doesn't have my financial background could take over the role - as finding someone who could do it has been impossible. In the meantime by automating I'm reducing my workload.
The point I took from your posting is that they were doing ok and now they aren't - so clearly something has changed. That is your starting point for the conversation with them. Tell them exactly that - that it isn't like them to make this many errors (we all make some errors - we are only human) and you are concerned that there may be a problem - and you'd like to work out what it is and what to do about it. It sounds like this person needs support rather than castigation but you can't do that until you understand what might be causing the mistakes. I've seen all sorts of reasons over the years - from failing eyesight, to too much pressure at work, to issues at home - but usually there is a way to work with them to solve the problem. If they've been a reliable member of staff up until now I think you have a responsibility to find out what the problem is. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away just isn't an option.
OK, so your friend has been a lousy client - and the consensus is not to mix business with pleasure as you've also noted. But has he been a lousy friend before? And is it really right to cut off a friend at a time when you might need one because he made a mistake? He might not even realise that what he said was insensitive. I have a colleague who just wanted to throw herself into her work as a distraction from her grief. It's up to you of course, but you have reacted hastily and I would recommend at least a conversation to explain how hurt you are and why you have cut him off. Friendship is valuable and you need to be sure you are doing the right thing by ending one.
There are plenty of systems out there to look at - but I would always start with those which are winning awards with AccountingWeb! There are many newcomers in the last few years which are all cloud-based and designed to integrate with anything so it's worth doing some research. It sounds as though investment now in the right system will pay back later, or you could end up in a right old mess, so making sure you have the right software in place might be worth investing a little more than you had originally imagined.
Some names to look at - iplicit, Xledger, AccountsIQ, Dynamics Business Central, Sage Intaact
Good luck!
Not sure if I'm missing something here - but I'm assuming that the client holds the property so that it generates an income - so I would assume that at some point the money makes its way from the agent into her bank account. That's your starting point for figures. I'd also imagine that the property agents pay the money over on a regular basis along with a statement showing what deductions have been made from the rent for the property. I'd also imagine that the client agrees the level of rent charged (whether annual or some other basis). (I'm basing my imagining on what a local agent does with regard to a property let out by a charity - so imagination based on facts in another case.) If your client isn't giving you this information maybe she doesn't understand what you are asking for - I would start with some questions along the lines of my imaginations above to understand what happens on a regular basis and then I'm pretty sure that there is some paperwork to uncover.
Apparently HMRC have issued a lawsuit against me and there is a warrant for my arrest!!! If so the police aren't doing very well as I go home every evening!
But joking aside, if you're not switched on, and let's face it, if we're on here then we probably are, that could be a very scary message to receive. Something needs to be done to stop these people preying on the vulnerable.
The best way to approach this is from the position of what could go wrong. If there is an incident, the ICO would always consider whether you should have known better - so the fact that you are asking questions shows that you realise that something could go wrong. So if something did go wrong, should you have known better? Things are still permissible as long as the appropriate precautions are in place. So if you allow staff to take paperwork out of the office, then there ought to be something in place to tell staff what their responsibility is with regard to that information and what they are and are not permitted to do (e.g. someone mentioned about leaving paperwork in a car unattended - you might want to stop staff from doing that). You may therefore end up with more policies - writing things down is a key part of GDPR! I hope that helps a little.
I've never really understood why software suppliers think that open period accounting is a good thing! E.g. you are closing the accounts and know that an invoice hasn't been received yet - so you do an accrual. Then the invoice arrives, dated in the prior month so you enter it and suddenly you have duplicated that cost as you now have an accrual and the invoice. Whenever I'm looking for an accounting system now my first question is whether or not you can close the periods! I'm really not a fan of the approach of dating the invoices the 1st of the next month as invoice date in my book, should be the invoice date.