I think you have summed it up nicely - disappointment. If they agree to repay then fine, the problem lies if they refuse and then we are left with (what we believe) are overclaimed grants.
This is the director's own company. We can't see how they would delegate the responsibility of their duties to junior staff. The director has sole access to the bank account and there have been 100s of transactions in the period. The director alone has used the only debit card for numerous company purchases.
Furthermore there is evidence to suggest the director has been in the store on multiple occasions.
We had already clarified statutory duties last year and when we found out we discussed this again. They were adamant they had done no work but this is a small director/owner company and the company has traded throughout (apart from initial lockdown). The director has sole access to the bank account, paying suppliers, wages etc. and using the debit card for business purchases. This responsibility is not delegated elsewhere.
The payroll company have told us that the director has been responsible for working out the info for the covid claims.
Yes - appreciate that if you untick the EA claim then it will obviously include the ER NIC in the grant.
Have not seen any clarity on the EA position and there only seems to be assumptions that if you claim the EA you won't be able to claim ER NIC under the CJRS.
Just got through to HMRC paye helpline and they voted no!
64/8 will take too long so each client will need to register for a government gateway id and add Paye to their account - this is HMRC's current view. This will really speed things along!
I think you are getting the question that many directors of family owned businesses are asking.
The guidance is that as long as the director is doing no work, bar statutory duties, (...not providing services or generating revenue) then they can be furloughed. If you have a shop that is now shut then it is reasonable to expect a spouse could be furloughed. However if the remaining director carries out any work - eg. paying wages or a supplier (surely that counts as work?) then furloughing both directors would not seem appropriate.
However I am sure Martin Lewis will reveal all.....;)
In the CTJS there is ..."an employee cannot undertake work for or on behalf of the organisation. This includes providing services or generating revenue."
So if you are the sole director preparing the payroll for your staff (who are furloughed) and still paying the odd bill (whilst the business is closed) I assume this would be classed as providing services? or is there a definition of 'providing services'?
But if the employment contract includes a lay-off provision then would the employer not just be able to furlough the employees as no agreement would be required from the employees?
My answers
I think you have summed it up nicely - disappointment. If they agree to repay then fine, the problem lies if they refuse and then we are left with (what we believe) are overclaimed grants.
The payroll bureau have already confirmed that they are all full claims.
This is the director's own company. We can't see how they would delegate the responsibility of their duties to junior staff. The director has sole access to the bank account and there have been 100s of transactions in the period. The director alone has used the only debit card for numerous company purchases.
Furthermore there is evidence to suggest the director has been in the store on multiple occasions.
We had already clarified statutory duties last year and when we found out we discussed this again. They were adamant they had done no work but this is a small director/owner company and the company has traded throughout (apart from initial lockdown). The director has sole access to the bank account, paying suppliers, wages etc. and using the debit card for business purchases. This responsibility is not delegated elsewhere.
The payroll company have told us that the director has been responsible for working out the info for the covid claims.
Yes - appreciate that if you untick the EA claim then it will obviously include the ER NIC in the grant.
Have not seen any clarity on the EA position and there only seems to be assumptions that if you claim the EA you won't be able to claim ER NIC under the CJRS.
Yes - we did the update and there is a detailed CJRS claim under analysis that can be broken down to each employee.
From what we can see the employer nic allowance is automatically offset against any employer nic before the grant claim.
Just got through to HMRC paye helpline and they voted no!
64/8 will take too long so each client will need to register for a government gateway id and add Paye to their account - this is HMRC's current view. This will really speed things along!
I think you are getting the question that many directors of family owned businesses are asking.
The guidance is that as long as the director is doing no work, bar statutory duties, (...not providing services or generating revenue) then they can be furloughed. If you have a shop that is now shut then it is reasonable to expect a spouse could be furloughed. However if the remaining director carries out any work - eg. paying wages or a supplier (surely that counts as work?) then furloughing both directors would not seem appropriate.
However I am sure Martin Lewis will reveal all.....;)
In the CTJS there is ..."an employee cannot undertake work for or on behalf of the organisation. This includes providing services or generating revenue."
So if you are the sole director preparing the payroll for your staff (who are furloughed) and still paying the odd bill (whilst the business is closed) I assume this would be classed as providing services? or is there a definition of 'providing services'?
But if the employment contract includes a lay-off provision then would the employer not just be able to furlough the employees as no agreement would be required from the employees?