Director of All Paul Limited, a modern, proactive firm of accountants based in north Leeds that focuses on helping smaller businesses and their owners manage their accounting, business and taxation.
Just tell the new advisor, "We disengaged as we were fed up with late filings ". You can always have a quiet word rather than by email if that concerns you.
Wouldn't you want to know if you were to have a difficult client from another firm of accountants?
I wouldn't expect to give paid time off for swotting before the exams. Evenings and weekend.
If this is for employee of your firm, then I may be out of date on what is normal. I may offer 1 week of unpaid leave, but this has to be managed as al trainees cannot be off the same week in a small office.
I don’t think, given the numerous delays, and it is still quite some time before ITSA kicks in that I’m getting too excited.
I spend time and energy getting set up with Excel / bridging software for the 2024 deadline that has been put back.. again.
Choose a package that the client and you can work with, as always, and ensure that it will be appropriate after MTD for Self Assessment [eventually] starts.
My sole trader clients are relatively small and therefore I think they can keep an Excel based cash book to drag and drop to my bridging software provider.
I’ve been using 123 Sheets for MTD for VAT and Excel based cash books for many years and using their bridging software. This is ideal for clients, who don’t want specific ‘software’ and don’t want to learn a desktop or cloud package…. which in my opinion they don’t need such complications.
I’m a great fan of the spreadsheet. I design a template and give it to clients when they join me. We are talking about individuals maintaining bookkeeping when mostly don’t have staff and don’t need sales and purchase ledges.
I joined the ITSA pilot with 123 Sheets and I designed a cashbook, around 3 2 years ago, that automatically extracts quarterly totals and produces a schedule for uploading. I only have one client in the pilot and it works fine.
As I only deal with the smaller type of client, I would be rolling out the Excel based cash book (which would have to be quite carefully controlled compared to a VAT registered client as there are more cost categories to be analysed).
In any case, I don’t think I’m going to have many sole traders / landlords will turnover more than £50,000.
I investigated taking deposits before my firm was VAT registered, to help a few non-VAT registered clients and not charge them VAT.
From memory, and VAT advice obtained at the time, it doesn't work; something about continuous services provided by accountants and the tax point, even if you bill for each specific annual accounts, Tax Return each year.
Basic PAYE tools DOES work and is sometimes the only way to fix the PAYE record for employees.
My experience is that after using Basic PAYE Tools the PAYE account is updated fairy quickly.
Basic PAYE tools is slow and clunky. Essentially you submit an amendment to a box on the original P45 or P60 or the underlying National Insurance record boxes.
However, so long as you know that you are just submitting a plus or minus adjustment to the original box amount it is not complicated to deal with 15 employees, though a little tiresome!
My experience e.g. with Sage 50c software is that you cannot do an FPS Adjustment unless you made the original FRS with the software. You therefore couldn’t have used Moneysoft or BrightPay and then go to Sage 50c to make the FPS Adjustment.
HMRC are definitely completely incorrect is saying that “they will only accept a correction using an FPS from the original software.”. What happens if the client changes accountant/payroll provider or the latter changes software between the original submission and correcting the mistake.
My payroll software has submitted some real rubbish to HMRC via RTI, due to a software bug. I fixed the issue with Basic PAYE Tools. A handful of staff is not too bad, if you cannot deal with an FPS Adjustment through your original software.
Even with my current payroll software, Sage 50c, if the error to be fixed is in say in week 2, I’d have to re-run all the payrolls for the next 50 weeks to get the payroll YTD values correct. It was quicker to do this adjustment via Basic PAYE Tools, as you just submit one annual adjustment to the affected figures per employee.
That is absolutely nothing to stop an individual, or any other legal entity, charging a limited company for services provided as a self employed person.
As been noted regarding the petrol station case, some services provided by a director are those attributable only to a director and therefore cannot be charged for under a self-employed basis.
Any owner managed limited companies, and sometimes only having a sole director shareholder, can be charged by the individual for self-employment services provided.
So long as the services provided are not under an employee-employer relationship (of a contract of service) then the individual can charge their own limited company for contract for services provided.
I take an example of a limited company that provides general practise accounting services. I may take a salary, up to the National Insurance threshold, and then take the rest of my remuneration as dividend.
However, there is absolutely nothing stopping me charging my company for providing my technical accounting services, on a self-employed basis. e.g. accounts preparation and Tax Return preparation services. My limited company is under no obligation whatsoever to provide me with work, as a third party. I am also under no obligation to provide my services like an employee. I will probably use the computer and software of the company, rather than bringing my own computer, because this is the computer and software that the company that I decided to offer my services for has provided to me and I must use this in the performance of my self employment role.
Making a sensible charge for the provision of my labour to my own limited company is a perfectly accepted as a self-employment charge. I think the nominal salary, up to the National Insurance threshold, is more than enough to cover my services as a director and officer of the company.
The important thing to note is the relationship between the company and the individual providing their services. With your own limited company, you can structure the relationship as you wish.
What if I provide non-practise services e.g. marketing, design, website writing, blogging services to my limited company. Can I not charge for this as a self employed basis, just like anyone could?
In fact, from a taxation perspective there can be a real advantage in making a charge, up to £12,570 as a self-employed person, to your own limited company. There is no Class 2 or Class 4 National Insurance. I receive my state pension credit through my salary. I then take the balance of my profits as dividends.
Should that be "Future income and expenditure **are** inherently uncertain"
I do response to these applications, as the clients wants something. I say something factual like, turnover and profits in year xxxx and yyyy were. Over past x years, turnover and profits have never fallen below.
I may even say, we are not aware of any reason why turnover and profits may fall, but that doesn't mean we are certifying that.
I just point out the obvious facts and have never had a loan provider / clients come back to me.
I'd always include a disclaimer e.g.
"The information provided is given in the strictest confidence without guarantee or responsibility on the part of the firm or its officials. It may not be disclosed to or relied upon by any third party without the firm’s prior consent. The disclosure is based upon information which is currently available to us, relating to our professional relationship with our clients. The reply should not be relied upon as sole source of credit reference. Recipients should make other enquiries from other sources of information."
Why don't you do what every other director of a limited may do, and use an accountant yourself, rather than struggle with poor IT and systems.
Surely, you know another local accountant that can take your TB in suitable coded format and import into their AP software. I intend to do just that in due course with my own firm.
Do you expect a dentist/surgeon to operate on themselves, just because they are a former dentist/surgeon.
How much is it going to cost you; a few hundred pounds!
I do not think that you are repairing anything. You are building something that never existed before, to be used in the trade. That makes it a capital cost, not a repair.
Just because it is a capital cost does not mean that tax relief is available, through plant and machinery capital allowances, SBA, integral feature, capital gains tax etc
Historically, it was akin to the DryDock case in CIR v Barclay Curle and Co Ltd 45TC221 where a dry dock was found to be plant as it was used ‘in the trade’ rather than providing the ‘setting for the trade’ e.g. buildings. I think the concrete structure is used in the trade.
Those cases predate the statutory exclusions for buildings (CA22010) and structures (CA22020). Today, most buildings and structures are excluded from PMAs.
I therefore vote for this concrete structure being covered by SBA i.e. capital expenditure on renovations or conversions of, or repairs incidental to, existing commercial structures or buildings.
The following are integral features:
• An electrical system (including a lighting system).
• A cold water system.
• A space or water heating system, a powered system of ventilation, air cooling or air purification, and any floor or ceiling comprised in such a system.
• A lift, an escalator or a moving walkway.
• External solar shading.
• This list is exhaustive.
Also, any asset whose principal purpose is to insulate or enclose the interior of a building or to provide an interior wall, **floor** or ceiling which is intended to remain permanently in place, will not count as an integral feature.
The concrete structure appears to be an interior wall or floor.
My answers
Just tell the new advisor, "We disengaged as we were fed up with late filings ". You can always have a quiet word rather than by email if that concerns you.
Wouldn't you want to know if you were to have a difficult client from another firm of accountants?
I also did day release and day off for the exam.
I wouldn't expect to give paid time off for swotting before the exams. Evenings and weekend.
If this is for employee of your firm, then I may be out of date on what is normal. I may offer 1 week of unpaid leave, but this has to be managed as al trainees cannot be off the same week in a small office.
I don’t think, given the numerous delays, and it is still quite some time before ITSA kicks in that I’m getting too excited.
I spend time and energy getting set up with Excel / bridging software for the 2024 deadline that has been put back.. again.
Choose a package that the client and you can work with, as always, and ensure that it will be appropriate after MTD for Self Assessment [eventually] starts.
My sole trader clients are relatively small and therefore I think they can keep an Excel based cash book to drag and drop to my bridging software provider.
I’ve been using 123 Sheets for MTD for VAT and Excel based cash books for many years and using their bridging software. This is ideal for clients, who don’t want specific ‘software’ and don’t want to learn a desktop or cloud package…. which in my opinion they don’t need such complications.
I’m a great fan of the spreadsheet. I design a template and give it to clients when they join me. We are talking about individuals maintaining bookkeeping when mostly don’t have staff and don’t need sales and purchase ledges.
I joined the ITSA pilot with 123 Sheets and I designed a cashbook, around 3 2 years ago, that automatically extracts quarterly totals and produces a schedule for uploading. I only have one client in the pilot and it works fine.
As I only deal with the smaller type of client, I would be rolling out the Excel based cash book (which would have to be quite carefully controlled compared to a VAT registered client as there are more cost categories to be analysed).
In any case, I don’t think I’m going to have many sole traders / landlords will turnover more than £50,000.
I investigated taking deposits before my firm was VAT registered, to help a few non-VAT registered clients and not charge them VAT.
From memory, and VAT advice obtained at the time, it doesn't work; something about continuous services provided by accountants and the tax point, even if you bill for each specific annual accounts, Tax Return each year.
An apostrophe is not always used to show possession. It is also used to show missed our letters e.g. let's rather than let us.
Could demonstrations be reduced to demo's i.e. missing out 'nstration'?
Basic PAYE tools DOES work and is sometimes the only way to fix the PAYE record for employees.
My experience is that after using Basic PAYE Tools the PAYE account is updated fairy quickly.
Basic PAYE tools is slow and clunky. Essentially you submit an amendment to a box on the original P45 or P60 or the underlying National Insurance record boxes.
However, so long as you know that you are just submitting a plus or minus adjustment to the original box amount it is not complicated to deal with 15 employees, though a little tiresome!
My experience e.g. with Sage 50c software is that you cannot do an FPS Adjustment unless you made the original FRS with the software. You therefore couldn’t have used Moneysoft or BrightPay and then go to Sage 50c to make the FPS Adjustment.
HMRC are definitely completely incorrect is saying that “they will only accept a correction using an FPS from the original software.”. What happens if the client changes accountant/payroll provider or the latter changes software between the original submission and correcting the mistake.
My payroll software has submitted some real rubbish to HMRC via RTI, due to a software bug. I fixed the issue with Basic PAYE Tools. A handful of staff is not too bad, if you cannot deal with an FPS Adjustment through your original software.
Even with my current payroll software, Sage 50c, if the error to be fixed is in say in week 2, I’d have to re-run all the payrolls for the next 50 weeks to get the payroll YTD values correct. It was quicker to do this adjustment via Basic PAYE Tools, as you just submit one annual adjustment to the affected figures per employee.
That is absolutely nothing to stop an individual, or any other legal entity, charging a limited company for services provided as a self employed person.
As been noted regarding the petrol station case, some services provided by a director are those attributable only to a director and therefore cannot be charged for under a self-employed basis.
Any owner managed limited companies, and sometimes only having a sole director shareholder, can be charged by the individual for self-employment services provided.
So long as the services provided are not under an employee-employer relationship (of a contract of service) then the individual can charge their own limited company for contract for services provided.
I take an example of a limited company that provides general practise accounting services. I may take a salary, up to the National Insurance threshold, and then take the rest of my remuneration as dividend.
However, there is absolutely nothing stopping me charging my company for providing my technical accounting services, on a self-employed basis. e.g. accounts preparation and Tax Return preparation services. My limited company is under no obligation whatsoever to provide me with work, as a third party. I am also under no obligation to provide my services like an employee. I will probably use the computer and software of the company, rather than bringing my own computer, because this is the computer and software that the company that I decided to offer my services for has provided to me and I must use this in the performance of my self employment role.
Making a sensible charge for the provision of my labour to my own limited company is a perfectly accepted as a self-employment charge. I think the nominal salary, up to the National Insurance threshold, is more than enough to cover my services as a director and officer of the company.
The important thing to note is the relationship between the company and the individual providing their services. With your own limited company, you can structure the relationship as you wish.
What if I provide non-practise services e.g. marketing, design, website writing, blogging services to my limited company. Can I not charge for this as a self employed basis, just like anyone could?
In fact, from a taxation perspective there can be a real advantage in making a charge, up to £12,570 as a self-employed person, to your own limited company. There is no Class 2 or Class 4 National Insurance. I receive my state pension credit through my salary. I then take the balance of my profits as dividends.
Should that be "Future income and expenditure **are** inherently uncertain"
I do response to these applications, as the clients wants something. I say something factual like, turnover and profits in year xxxx and yyyy were. Over past x years, turnover and profits have never fallen below.
I may even say, we are not aware of any reason why turnover and profits may fall, but that doesn't mean we are certifying that.
I just point out the obvious facts and have never had a loan provider / clients come back to me.
I'd always include a disclaimer e.g.
"The information provided is given in the strictest confidence without guarantee or responsibility on the part of the firm or its officials. It may not be disclosed to or relied upon by any third party without the firm’s prior consent. The disclosure is based upon information which is currently available to us, relating to our professional relationship with our clients. The reply should not be relied upon as sole source of credit reference. Recipients should make other enquiries from other sources of information."
Hi GHarr497688
Why don't you do what every other director of a limited may do, and use an accountant yourself, rather than struggle with poor IT and systems.
Surely, you know another local accountant that can take your TB in suitable coded format and import into their AP software. I intend to do just that in due course with my own firm.
Do you expect a dentist/surgeon to operate on themselves, just because they are a former dentist/surgeon.
How much is it going to cost you; a few hundred pounds!
I do not think that you are repairing anything. You are building something that never existed before, to be used in the trade. That makes it a capital cost, not a repair.
Just because it is a capital cost does not mean that tax relief is available, through plant and machinery capital allowances, SBA, integral feature, capital gains tax etc
Historically, it was akin to the DryDock case in CIR v Barclay Curle and Co Ltd 45TC221 where a dry dock was found to be plant as it was used ‘in the trade’ rather than providing the ‘setting for the trade’ e.g. buildings. I think the concrete structure is used in the trade.
Those cases predate the statutory exclusions for buildings (CA22010) and structures (CA22020). Today, most buildings and structures are excluded from PMAs.
For an overview of Structures & Buildings Allowance (SBA), see https://www.rossmartin.co.uk/capital-allowances-75082/4239-structures-an....
I therefore vote for this concrete structure being covered by SBA i.e. capital expenditure on renovations or conversions of, or repairs incidental to, existing commercial structures or buildings.
I do not consider this concrete structure to be an integral feature. https://www.rossmartin.co.uk/capital-allowances/296-what-is-an-integral-...
The following are integral features:
• An electrical system (including a lighting system).
• A cold water system.
• A space or water heating system, a powered system of ventilation, air cooling or air purification, and any floor or ceiling comprised in such a system.
• A lift, an escalator or a moving walkway.
• External solar shading.
• This list is exhaustive.
Also, any asset whose principal purpose is to insulate or enclose the interior of a building or to provide an interior wall, **floor** or ceiling which is intended to remain permanently in place, will not count as an integral feature.
The concrete structure appears to be an interior wall or floor.