Don't Destroy the Rain Forest Mike, I suggest that you have a word with your software suppliers. Ours (Digita) is certainly proposing to produce a 'Return' for clients to approve. The only difference is that, whilst it will be your evidence, the format will not mirror the SA100 or, if it does, the format will not be 'approved' for manual submission to HMRC.
Therefore, only in the case of a manual Return will you need to ask for paper from HMRC.
Beginning to lose it...................... Warren is missing the point, the reason why the substitute Returns are being withdrawn is that HMRC don't want to continue spending the time approving the software versions when it does not, in their view, seem to benefit them.
This appears to be very short-sighted on their part but, I have to say, it's the nature of the beast we are now having to learn to live with. The current catch phrase is 'Providing a better service. It should be amended to 'Providing a reduced service and learn fend for yourself mate!'
As for the shortening of the submission window, perhaps Civil Servants only work 8 months of the year and they are confused? I agree with Daniel that we are likely to be filing many more 'provisional' Returns than ever before.
As for me.....well I had intended having some time off in October 2008. Looks like there is a fat chance of that now. What with UITF40 this coming January, I probably won't be able to afford any more holidays anyway.
They Always 'Buy Short' Only today (where for various reasons I have been prevented from FBI) I have two instances where HMCE staff cannot copy type correctly, and one where they have (yet again) lost a Return.
Is it hardly surprising that more people are turing to FBI in order to regain their sanity when the standard of service on the manual system continues to decline?
Then why oh why is it a surprise to HMRC that the usage of FBI has increased, especially when that is precisely what they are trying to acheive.
So HMRC don't assume that FBI filing will be short of your estimates. Be proactive for once and purchase sufficient facilties to cope with the volumne.
Fine Example As we already File By Internet, it won't be a problem to us, but many small firms still don't have any proprietory software for anything, let alone preparation of Tax Returns.
I suppose this is yet another classic example of HMRC 'Working Together' with the professionals.
Where's the Common Sense? Like so much of the legislation being introduced at the moment, from tax to liquor licenses, there seems to be a lack of simplicity and common sense.
Unlike Ajay, I have found, usually, that the GC can be relied upon to administer a common sense approach and do so without great expense or inconvenience.
Furthermore, they have been known to 'knock back' the over-zealous Inspector.
Who Were The Designers? From what I have ascertained of the new scheme to date, I am in no doubt that big contractors will be happier with the terms. So they should be as, principally, they were the people that HMR&C consulted, and this is reflected in the many of the changes.
I, and I know many HMR&C staff, are very concerned as to how the small 'subbie' will cope.
It's all very well saying that they will have to and that there is 'clever' software being developed, but if they haven't got a computer, or have only just mastered sending an email, the learning curve will be very steep. It may even be a mountain.
There are small low tech businesses out there but, as is so often the case, their views are not sought, or they are overshaddowed by the big boys.
There's Already A Forum..........But........ As a member of our local Working Together Group, it was my hope that I could contribute to constructive change, expecially as one of our local group are on the National WT Group.
Not just with 64-8's, but with most suggestions being made, they do not see the light of day. Furthermore, when information is given to practitioner, who then pass it down the line, such is not known by most of the remaining HMR&C staff. Therefore, not only do we not go forwards, we actually go backwards and everyone wastes greater amounts of their time.
Having been in practice for nearly 35 years, I am currently resigned to the fact that a practical, professional or commonsense approach by HMR&C to every day issues is as far away as it's ever been.
Who's in Charge of Logistics? I can confirm that much of what is being stated by correspondents we have experienced, particularly with regard to the processing of 64-8's.
One day I will have enough time to visit Longbenton. On past performance spanning many years, this must be the Revenue's equivalent of an accident blackspot. I would just like to say I have actually been there and done that. That's what happens when you have been dealing with the Revenue for 30+ years. You are easily pleased.
My real concern is who planned this latest centralisation and do they have a calculator?
Surely, even industrious practitioners can't make up vast numbers of ficticious 64-8's and submit them. So, how can someone under estimate so badly the level of staff needed to cope with the workload.
I suggest that the decision maker has a lot in common (or may even be the same person) as he or she dealing with the planning of the new Bradford Call Centre. Only providing the resources to answer 29.2% of calls in the first month is unforgivable.
At the end of the day it's us who have to help them solve a problem that any normal person could see coming, if they only looked and planned properly.
Will the FBI system be shut down again this year in the run up to the 31 January for essential maintence?....Probably.
He drafts all his legislation from his present 'unreal world', so being in another fantasy climate should provide him with lots of new convoluted ideas to confuse us with next year!
My answers
Don't Destroy the Rain Forest
Mike, I suggest that you have a word with your software suppliers. Ours (Digita) is certainly proposing to produce a 'Return' for clients to approve. The only difference is that, whilst it will be your evidence, the format will not mirror the SA100 or, if it does, the format will not be 'approved' for manual submission to HMRC.
Therefore, only in the case of a manual Return will you need to ask for paper from HMRC.
Beginning to lose it......................
Warren is missing the point, the reason why the substitute Returns are being withdrawn is that HMRC don't want to continue spending the time approving the software versions when it does not, in their view, seem to benefit them.
This appears to be very short-sighted on their part but, I have to say, it's the nature of the beast we are now having to learn to live with. The current catch phrase is 'Providing a better service. It should be amended to 'Providing a reduced service and learn fend for yourself mate!'
As for the shortening of the submission window, perhaps Civil Servants only work 8 months of the year and they are confused? I agree with Daniel that we are likely to be filing many more 'provisional' Returns than ever before.
As for me.....well I had intended having some time off in October 2008. Looks like there is a fat chance of that now. What with UITF40 this coming January, I probably won't be able to afford any more holidays anyway.
Happy days.
They Always 'Buy Short'
Only today (where for various reasons I have been prevented from FBI) I have two instances where HMCE staff cannot copy type correctly, and one where they have (yet again) lost a Return.
Is it hardly surprising that more people are turing to FBI in order to regain their sanity when the standard of service on the manual system continues to decline?
Then why oh why is it a surprise to HMRC that the usage of FBI has increased, especially when that is precisely what they are trying to acheive.
So HMRC don't assume that FBI filing will be short of your estimates. Be proactive for once and purchase sufficient facilties to cope with the volumne.
Hurray!
I can now tell the wife to order a turkey and turn the heating back on. Christmas is no longer cancelled.
Who said there's no Santa Claus?
Fine Example
As we already File By Internet, it won't be a problem to us, but many small firms still don't have any proprietory software for anything, let alone preparation of Tax Returns.
I suppose this is yet another classic example of HMRC 'Working Together' with the professionals.
Where's the Common Sense?
Like so much of the legislation being introduced at the moment, from tax to liquor licenses, there seems to be a lack of simplicity and common sense.
Unlike Ajay, I have found, usually, that the GC can be relied upon to administer a common sense approach and do so without great expense or inconvenience.
Furthermore, they have been known to 'knock back' the over-zealous Inspector.
Long may the GC continue.
Who Were The Designers?
From what I have ascertained of the new scheme to date, I am in no doubt that big contractors will be happier with the terms. So they should be as, principally, they were the people that HMR&C consulted, and this is reflected in the many of the changes.
I, and I know many HMR&C staff, are very concerned as to how the small 'subbie' will cope.
It's all very well saying that they will have to and that there is 'clever' software being developed, but if they haven't got a computer, or have only just mastered sending an email, the learning curve will be very steep. It may even be a mountain.
There are small low tech businesses out there but, as is so often the case, their views are not sought, or they are overshaddowed by the big boys.
There's Already A Forum..........But........
As a member of our local Working Together Group, it was my hope that I could contribute to constructive change, expecially as one of our local group are on the National WT Group.
Not just with 64-8's, but with most suggestions being made, they do not see the light of day. Furthermore, when information is given to practitioner, who then pass it down the line, such is not known by most of the remaining HMR&C staff. Therefore, not only do we not go forwards, we actually go backwards and everyone wastes greater amounts of their time.
Having been in practice for nearly 35 years, I am currently resigned to the fact that a practical, professional or commonsense approach by HMR&C to every day issues is as far away as it's ever been.
Who's in Charge of Logistics?
I can confirm that much of what is being stated by correspondents we have experienced, particularly with regard to the processing of 64-8's.
One day I will have enough time to visit Longbenton. On past performance spanning many years, this must be the Revenue's equivalent of an accident blackspot. I would just like to say I have actually been there and done that. That's what happens when you have been dealing with the Revenue for 30+ years. You are easily pleased.
My real concern is who planned this latest centralisation and do they have a calculator?
Surely, even industrious practitioners can't make up vast numbers of ficticious 64-8's and submit them. So, how can someone under estimate so badly the level of staff needed to cope with the workload.
I suggest that the decision maker has a lot in common (or may even be the same person) as he or she dealing with the planning of the new Bradford Call Centre. Only providing the resources to answer 29.2% of calls in the first month is unforgivable.
At the end of the day it's us who have to help them solve a problem that any normal person could see coming, if they only looked and planned properly.
Will the FBI system be shut down again this year in the run up to the 31 January for essential maintence?....Probably.
Fantasy World
How about Gordon Brown?
He drafts all his legislation from his present 'unreal world', so being in another fantasy climate should provide him with lots of new convoluted ideas to confuse us with next year!