We are a gold partner with FreeAgent and it is our preferred software, has been for 14 years. We have largely small clients that in these tough times appreciate software that is free with a free business bank account (Mettle) - it's a couple of hundred pounds a year saved that they would be spending with Xero.
Built in mileage log and out of pocket expenses claims, built in simple payroll if they want to run it themselves, built in basic projects capacity and timesheet logging, phone app which can be used to upload photos, data extraction is being rolled out that picks up info from the photos automatically and matches receipts to the bank feed.
Support is second to none. Excellent VAT returns with full breakdowns that the VAT inspectors love.
We export TB to do returns and accounts elsewhere but their accounts and CT reporting is improving.
You can mass import payroll csv for all the clients on your dashboard at once - and has link from Brightpay that is also improving.
For bigger clients we use Xero - but nearly everyone else is on FA.
No-one that we have moved from QBs or Xero or Sage have ever wanted to go back.
The key thing is - this software is designed for your client in their language - not for accountants. We're happy to deal with a couple of clunky accounting aspects of it if the clients gets it, likes using it, and understands their business with it.
We would agree, if this was not just for one small charity client who we only charge minimal fees to. We can't justify the annual cost for just this client I'm afraid.
We're using Pixie. Very enthusiastic team, much prefer it to AM that we were using before. Reasonable price. However they are relaunching a new version that looks totally different to the one we are using. Time will tell as to whether it is better, or not as good. They seem to be focusing on AI fuelled automatic responses to clients which is pretty much the opposite of our culture of personalised customer support.
Not the money in the business to do this at the moment, and with the distance they are travelling and the limited time they have to travel all - electric cars won't work. But thanks for the suggestion - it may be something they can consider in the future.
I have now met with the clients and they have decided to switch to more meetings over Teams and less travel.
The inherited business was a Sole Trader business. It has now been converted to a Ltd co. There is no plan to sell the business or for the directors to move. So from reading EIM32075 again, their premises in London must be considered a permanent workplace as the current intention is for both directors to travel there for at least the next 2 years.
The case law example I found was Newsom v Robertson [1952] . This was in the Business Income Manual, but I don't think that makes it less relevant. The findings stated that the base of his trading operation was his shop, and that if he chose to live away from that shop the cost to commute was not "wholly and exclusively".
I was just hoping that as they did not choose to have a long commute, that might make a difference. But as I'msorryIhaven'taclue stated - they do have the choice to move now.
To clarify - my question relates to whether or not travel and subsistence costs for the two directors would be tax deductible for the limited company without any BIK for the directors.
Thanks very much for the Scooby answer. :-)
They run an undertakers. Which makes it no different to any other high street services business as far as I can see.
The HMRC examples show someone who chooses to set up a business a distance away from their home, and says any travel is not tax deductible as they chose to start a business a distance from their base. I was just hoping, as due to inheriting it and not deliberately setting something up at a distance, there may be a different rule.
"Well, if you already know the answer, why ask the question?"
Because I was hoping that I was missing one of those great case laws you guys know about that would save my clients some money.
And now, when I tell my clients the bad news, I can tell them that I have consulted the wise all knowing oracles in the cloud, and that unfortunately they agree with me. :-)
It's a very specific sector so not something I want to put on a public forum due to confidentiality - but the type of business would not change the treatment.
My answers
We are a gold partner with FreeAgent and it is our preferred software, has been for 14 years. We have largely small clients that in these tough times appreciate software that is free with a free business bank account (Mettle) - it's a couple of hundred pounds a year saved that they would be spending with Xero.
Built in mileage log and out of pocket expenses claims, built in simple payroll if they want to run it themselves, built in basic projects capacity and timesheet logging, phone app which can be used to upload photos, data extraction is being rolled out that picks up info from the photos automatically and matches receipts to the bank feed.
Support is second to none. Excellent VAT returns with full breakdowns that the VAT inspectors love.
We export TB to do returns and accounts elsewhere but their accounts and CT reporting is improving.
You can mass import payroll csv for all the clients on your dashboard at once - and has link from Brightpay that is also improving.
For bigger clients we use Xero - but nearly everyone else is on FA.
No-one that we have moved from QBs or Xero or Sage have ever wanted to go back.
The key thing is - this software is designed for your client in their language - not for accountants. We're happy to deal with a couple of clunky accounting aspects of it if the clients gets it, likes using it, and understands their business with it.
We would agree, if this was not just for one small charity client who we only charge minimal fees to. We can't justify the annual cost for just this client I'm afraid.
We're using Pixie. Very enthusiastic team, much prefer it to AM that we were using before. Reasonable price. However they are relaunching a new version that looks totally different to the one we are using. Time will tell as to whether it is better, or not as good. They seem to be focusing on AI fuelled automatic responses to clients which is pretty much the opposite of our culture of personalised customer support.
Not the money in the business to do this at the moment, and with the distance they are travelling and the limited time they have to travel all - electric cars won't work. But thanks for the suggestion - it may be something they can consider in the future.
I have now met with the clients and they have decided to switch to more meetings over Teams and less travel.
Thanks for everyone's help.
Thanks again for everyone's input.
The inherited business was a Sole Trader business. It has now been converted to a Ltd co. There is no plan to sell the business or for the directors to move. So from reading EIM32075 again, their premises in London must be considered a permanent workplace as the current intention is for both directors to travel there for at least the next 2 years.
Thanks again all.
They inherited the business!
The case law example I found was Newsom v Robertson [1952] . This was in the Business Income Manual, but I don't think that makes it less relevant. The findings stated that the base of his trading operation was his shop, and that if he chose to live away from that shop the cost to commute was not "wholly and exclusively".
I was just hoping that as they did not choose to have a long commute, that might make a difference. But as I'msorryIhaven'taclue stated - they do have the choice to move now.
Thanks for everyone's help.
Thanks for the replies.
To clarify - my question relates to whether or not travel and subsistence costs for the two directors would be tax deductible for the limited company without any BIK for the directors.
Thanks very much for the Scooby answer. :-)
They run an undertakers. Which makes it no different to any other high street services business as far as I can see.
The HMRC examples show someone who chooses to set up a business a distance away from their home, and says any travel is not tax deductible as they chose to start a business a distance from their base. I was just hoping, as due to inheriting it and not deliberately setting something up at a distance, there may be a different rule.
"Well, if you already know the answer, why ask the question?"
Because I was hoping that I was missing one of those great case laws you guys know about that would save my clients some money.
And now, when I tell my clients the bad news, I can tell them that I have consulted the wise all knowing oracles in the cloud, and that unfortunately they agree with me. :-)
Thank you. I didn't think it was claimable but I was hoping I was overlooking some specific case law.
It's a very specific sector so not something I want to put on a public forum due to confidentiality - but the type of business would not change the treatment.