Note that even on incorporation relief, the goodwill deduction will still be restricted from the point of the company.
Re your comment:
"It should also be noted that the new restrictions only apply where the parties are connected, and there could therefore be situations where suitable planning could be undertaken to prevent the rules from applying."
one may have to tread carefully in these situations because there's a subtle sting in the tail in the form of the new TCGA 1992 s 169LA(5) which says that one can still be caught if one is party to relevant avoidance arrangements - in a nutshell, if you manouvres your position to secure that you aren't related to the company in question, or to ensure that the goodwill isn't included in the business transfer.
It will be interesting to see how this anti-avoidance provision will work in practice and what HMRC will say (or not) when they come to update their Manuals. (I am assuming that we'll be able to find the said Manual...)
"We remind HMRC the tribunal directions are there to be obeyed and not there for HMRC to decide whether it wishes to comply. For the sake of completeness we remind both parties the directions of the tribunal are there to be obeyed.”
They provide a very good illustration of the rule of law in practice. The idea that no one is above the law, including the executive branch of government (very timely reminder given the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta).
"Be you ever so high, the law of England is above you." - Chief Justice Lord Coke to James I.
It seems that the company will be denied tax relief on goodwill even if the owners aren't intending to extract the cash in the way that HMRC object to. E.g. even on a s 162 rollover.
One thing that is perplexing me.
I have read elsewhere that the company will be able to recover the lost tax relief when selling the business. But this would really depend on the meaning of CTA 2009 s 736(6), which says that the tax cost is:
"the amount of expenditure on the asset capitalised by the company for accounting purposes"
1. Is this the amount initially recognised in the balance sheet when the goodwill was acquired? - in which case one would be able to recover lost tax relief; or
2. Should this take into account that the balance sheet value decreases as the company writes off the goodwill in the accounts? (Except this time, the company cannot claim tax reliefs for the write offs).
The new GOV.UK site is a very cool, glossy looking site, very nice, very pleasing to the eye compared to the HMRC site where everything looks so boring.
And that's when alarm bells start ringing. I find the GOV.UK site just terrible. Budget Day/Autumn Statement - why is it that I have to go through several hoops and pages to get all the documentation? Wheras the HMRC site, there was a specific page from which you could navigate everything. Now HMRC still has this page - but it just take you to GOV.UK...
And why is it that to get any new information we now have three different sources - HMRC What's New, the Announcements page that takes you to GOV.UK and twitter. I actually found the news on one important EU case announced on twitter, but nowhere else.
It's the same principle as the Annual Report. The best ones are boring looking and have masses of writing and minimal photographs. The minute the paper becomes glossy and you see pictures of all those slick photogenic directors, and photos of the brand new HQ, you just know that you're in trouble.
I was told of this by an ex merchant banker. One of the most effective chairmen he knew, used to hold meetings in a room with no chairs. Everyone was forced to stand. No meeting he "chaired" ever lasted longer than 20 minutes.
What do you care what other people think? Richard Feynman
The most important thing is that you enjoy what you're doing. If other people think its a boring job, that's their problem.
A lot of glamorous sounding jobs aren't glamorous at all. Corporate dealmaker? Spends all his/her time shuffling documents. Catwalk model? Ever seen how worn out they look like when they go backstage to change into the next outfit?
And you don't need all these surveys/reports to tell you that you ought to be deeply unhappy because your job happens to be on the boring list. If you believe what the press write...in the summer of 2003 I read that Britain would be out of fuel by the following winter. I'm still waiting for the news story to confirm it...
My answers
Sting in the tail...
Note that even on incorporation relief, the goodwill deduction will still be restricted from the point of the company.
Re your comment:
"It should also be noted that the new restrictions only apply where the parties are connected, and there could therefore be situations where suitable planning could be undertaken to prevent the rules from applying."
one may have to tread carefully in these situations because there's a subtle sting in the tail in the form of the new TCGA 1992 s 169LA(5) which says that one can still be caught if one is party to relevant avoidance arrangements - in a nutshell, if you manouvres your position to secure that you aren't related to the company in question, or to ensure that the goodwill isn't included in the business transfer.
It will be interesting to see how this anti-avoidance provision will work in practice and what HMRC will say (or not) when they come to update their Manuals. (I am assuming that we'll be able to find the said Manual...)
The rule of law
These remarks by the judge are very pertinent:
"We remind HMRC the tribunal directions are there to be obeyed and not there for HMRC to decide whether it wishes to comply. For the sake of completeness we remind both parties the directions of the tribunal are there to be obeyed.”
They provide a very good illustration of the rule of law in practice. The idea that no one is above the law, including the executive branch of government (very timely reminder given the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta).
"Be you ever so high, the law of England is above you." - Chief Justice Lord Coke to James I.
Corporation tax relief on goodwill
It seems that the company will be denied tax relief on goodwill even if the owners aren't intending to extract the cash in the way that HMRC object to. E.g. even on a s 162 rollover.
One thing that is perplexing me.
I have read elsewhere that the company will be able to recover the lost tax relief when selling the business. But this would really depend on the meaning of CTA 2009 s 736(6), which says that the tax cost is:
"the amount of expenditure on the asset capitalised by the company for accounting purposes"
1. Is this the amount initially recognised in the balance sheet when the goodwill was acquired? - in which case one would be able to recover lost tax relief; or
2. Should this take into account that the balance sheet value decreases as the company writes off the goodwill in the accounts? (Except this time, the company cannot claim tax reliefs for the write offs).
Would be grateful for any views on this.
Glossy looking site - alarm bells
The new GOV.UK site is a very cool, glossy looking site, very nice, very pleasing to the eye compared to the HMRC site where everything looks so boring.
And that's when alarm bells start ringing. I find the GOV.UK site just terrible. Budget Day/Autumn Statement - why is it that I have to go through several hoops and pages to get all the documentation? Wheras the HMRC site, there was a specific page from which you could navigate everything. Now HMRC still has this page - but it just take you to GOV.UK...
And why is it that to get any new information we now have three different sources - HMRC What's New, the Announcements page that takes you to GOV.UK and twitter. I actually found the news on one important EU case announced on twitter, but nowhere else.
It's the same principle as the Annual Report. The best ones are boring looking and have masses of writing and minimal photographs. The minute the paper becomes glossy and you see pictures of all those slick photogenic directors, and photos of the brand new HQ, you just know that you're in trouble.
Everyone should stand - no chairs!
I was told of this by an ex merchant banker. One of the most effective chairmen he knew, used to hold meetings in a room with no chairs. Everyone was forced to stand. No meeting he "chaired" ever lasted longer than 20 minutes.
What do you care what other people think? Richard Feynman
The most important thing is that you enjoy what you're doing. If other people think its a boring job, that's their problem.
A lot of glamorous sounding jobs aren't glamorous at all. Corporate dealmaker? Spends all his/her time shuffling documents. Catwalk model? Ever seen how worn out they look like when they go backstage to change into the next outfit?
And you don't need all these surveys/reports to tell you that you ought to be deeply unhappy because your job happens to be on the boring list. If you believe what the press write...in the summer of 2003 I read that Britain would be out of fuel by the following winter. I'm still waiting for the news story to confirm it...
He has the press on his side
They created him. In the same way they created Anna Kournikova.