I had the old 'Mortgage Style' loan, and was able to obtain a new one to study for a PGCE with no issues.
Although it did mean at one point I was paying the new loan back through my wages, and the old loan back through DD.
Can't see the issue, the bank account would have to be in one of the companies name, and when money is paid out or in for the other company, you would simply do inter-company loan transactions, in both sets of company accounts.
The bank balance would then go on the balance sheet, along with the inter-company loan balance.
Whether it is allowed or not, I don't think I would like my name/details/email address etc to appear on a similar list. I also think that you should have to opt in to having that information made public rather than opting out.
Maybe it is as simple as who ever populates the list doesn't know about the BCC, and if they are made aware of it, they might change their procedure.
Not sure whether the HMRC would accept it, but how about a GPS tracker. Every location the motorhome stayed could then be tracked to their publications for that area?
Thanks Marion, CIS 340 is always my first point of call, but I am trying to ascertain how to interpret the HMRC guidance in Step 2 of CIS340, para 3.12
"Step 2: Deduct from the gross payment the amount the subcontractor actually paid for the following items used in the construction operations...:
materials (please read paragraph 3.13)"
Should I use:
i) the whole of the amount the subcontractor actually paid for the playing surface (because I far as I am concerned that is the material that was supplied to us)
OR
ii) only the material amount the subcontractor actually paid for the playing surface - if so, because his subcontractor is gross registered and doesn't need to provide a labour/material split, how do we get to that value?
Hi Marion - In response....
a. Yes - we provide construction services to our client. These constructions project often have various elements, which we will subcontract out.
b. Our subcontractor has supplied and installed a MUGA (Multi-Use Games Area)
c. Their subcontractor has supplied and installed the playing surface.
d. Our subcontractor has manufactured and installed the cage that surrounds it, and the components on the inside.
This is why the problem has arisen, because the labour to fit the actual cage, is quite minimal to the total project, but obviously it is making sure the material amount hasn't been overstated. And their subcontractor invoice could obviously go a long way towards that material value.
Thanks frankfx
I have looked at the above case, but I'm not sure it has helped me.
Labour can be classed as 'materials' - eg manufacturing a product.
There are not many companies that offer the service of our Subcontractor, so I am trying to keep them happy, but also bearing in mind the expectations of HMRC.
Ideally I would like to go back to our subcontractor with something definitive from the HMRC, which shows how they should treat their subcontractors costs, in relation to the labour/material split on their invoice to us.
How would you treat the Material/Labour split of the invoice that our Subcontractor (A) has received from their Subcontractor (B). Bearing in mind that B is gross status, so doesn't need to supply a material figure?
Can I also argue that A has provided us with a finished product, which is a material, so the direct cost of providing that material will be the invoice from B (which contains Labour and Materials)
A subcontractor is allowed to class manufacturing costs as materials, is this not a similar situation?
Please note it is not the labour of our Subcontractor, but the labour of our Subcontractors (A) Subcontractor (B).
It is the contractor who decides whether the works will fall under the CIS umbrella, and has to treat accordingly. Even if the works are considered to be different by the subcontractor.
My answers
I had the old 'Mortgage Style' loan, and was able to obtain a new one to study for a PGCE with no issues.
Although it did mean at one point I was paying the new loan back through my wages, and the old loan back through DD.
Can't see the issue, the bank account would have to be in one of the companies name, and when money is paid out or in for the other company, you would simply do inter-company loan transactions, in both sets of company accounts.
The bank balance would then go on the balance sheet, along with the inter-company loan balance.
Whether it is allowed or not, I don't think I would like my name/details/email address etc to appear on a similar list. I also think that you should have to opt in to having that information made public rather than opting out.
Maybe it is as simple as who ever populates the list doesn't know about the BCC, and if they are made aware of it, they might change their procedure.
Not sure whether the HMRC would accept it, but how about a GPS tracker. Every location the motorhome stayed could then be tracked to their publications for that area?
I've yet to meet a subcontractor who will happily pay any extra tax from the absolute minimum, regardless of when they can reclaim it.
Thanks Marion, CIS 340 is always my first point of call, but I am trying to ascertain how to interpret the HMRC guidance in Step 2 of CIS340, para 3.12
"Step 2: Deduct from the gross payment the amount the subcontractor actually paid for the following items used in the construction operations...:
materials (please read paragraph 3.13)"
Should I use:
i) the whole of the amount the subcontractor actually paid for the playing surface (because I far as I am concerned that is the material that was supplied to us)
OR
ii) only the material amount the subcontractor actually paid for the playing surface - if so, because his subcontractor is gross registered and doesn't need to provide a labour/material split, how do we get to that value?
Hi Marion - In response....
a. Yes - we provide construction services to our client. These constructions project often have various elements, which we will subcontract out.
b. Our subcontractor has supplied and installed a MUGA (Multi-Use Games Area)
c. Their subcontractor has supplied and installed the playing surface.
d. Our subcontractor has manufactured and installed the cage that surrounds it, and the components on the inside.
This is why the problem has arisen, because the labour to fit the actual cage, is quite minimal to the total project, but obviously it is making sure the material amount hasn't been overstated. And their subcontractor invoice could obviously go a long way towards that material value.
Thanks frankfx
I have looked at the above case, but I'm not sure it has helped me.
Labour can be classed as 'materials' - eg manufacturing a product.
There are not many companies that offer the service of our Subcontractor, so I am trying to keep them happy, but also bearing in mind the expectations of HMRC.
Ideally I would like to go back to our subcontractor with something definitive from the HMRC, which shows how they should treat their subcontractors costs, in relation to the labour/material split on their invoice to us.
How would you treat the Material/Labour split of the invoice that our Subcontractor (A) has received from their Subcontractor (B). Bearing in mind that B is gross status, so doesn't need to supply a material figure?
Can I also argue that A has provided us with a finished product, which is a material, so the direct cost of providing that material will be the invoice from B (which contains Labour and Materials)
A subcontractor is allowed to class manufacturing costs as materials, is this not a similar situation?
Please note it is not the labour of our Subcontractor, but the labour of our Subcontractors (A) Subcontractor (B).
It is the contractor who decides whether the works will fall under the CIS umbrella, and has to treat accordingly. Even if the works are considered to be different by the subcontractor.