Last time I looked, I recall the HMRC VAT website stating that it is a legal requirement to provide VAT invoices and does not make reference to that being only for supplies to businesses. Perhaps that has changed.
A VAT invoice only has to be provided to a taxable person which is why many retail/B2C businesses do as stated above.
VAT Regulations 1995: Obligation to provide a VAT invoice
13. —
(1) Save as otherwise provided in these Regulations, where a registered person—
(a) makes a taxable supply in the United Kingdom to a taxable person, or
(b) ......
(c) .......
he shall provide such persons as are mentioned above with a VAT invoice.
Not sure if this would be an improvement or not, as anyone that has dealt with the Online Selling Team at HMRC might well suggest that letting the computer work out the VAT and remove the human equation might well be better !
However, when it comes to HMRC and tax assessments, not a fan of 'shoot first, seek forgiveness later' approach, as it is usually the client/taxpayer (er...sorry, "customer") that pays the price.
Finally managed to get the application submitted. Frustratingly had to rekey the whole thing as it simply disappeared into the ether, and HMRC help desk less than 'helpful' as usual...
"This might be a migration issue, from old system to new system" - NO, this application was created wholly in the new system only
"This might be because you did the application outside of the hours from 9-5 Mon-Fri" - WTF ?! Why should that matter - NO, submission done during work hours on a Tuesday
"Maybe your submission receipt went in to junk/spam etc." - NO, we didn't get an auto acknowledgement OR the email acknowledgement, and certainly not in our junk mail box
One thing I did discover - really important - when you are doing the application form which opens in a new window, you need to make sure you flick back to the ASA agent account tab and do something to stop it logging out through inactivity (after 15mins). If you on the application tab, you wont get any warning of this !
Another topical discussion, but one which we quite frankly shouldn't be having in this day and age.
Having completed a client registration earlier last week, all of the above resonates acutely. One further comment/question really;
Are you aware of issues with receiving any sort of acknowledgement that your application was successfully submitted?
I received multiple error messages at the final submission stage, then eventually it appeared to go through okay. However, no acknowledgement message or email, and no suggestion that there is a pending registration anywhere in the agent portal.
Not surprised this has been delayed given the backdrop of shambolic service levels at HMRC.
Whilst welcoming the departure away from Default Surcharge, not so happy about the demise of Repayment Supplement (which is being grossly overlooked in all this!)
"However, there are a small number of circumstances where an individual can reclaim VAT without a VAT number.
One such way, ............., is when a client builds a residence, usually to live in but occasionally to sell."
I thought the DIY VAT refund scheme was exclusively for non business purposes? If you are selling the house you must VAT regsiter and claim VAT as any other developer would?
Not sure if you are trying to have a dig at me or not. If not, my apologies. But if so, I just need to clarify a couple of points:
- the M-I-L has lived with us in our house for over 8 years
- we had to pay to convert part of our downstairs to form a bedroom and downstairs wetroom
- due to circumstance, she has/had no assets and had we 'dumped' her with the NHS/LA there would have been no money for them to take
- at a somewhat conservative cost of £750 per week for a nursing care home, I make that £312k over 8 years - shall I ask for a tax rebate? Shall I invoice the NHS for doing what I did? Of course not...I do not begrudge that one bit. But when a politican jumps up and says we must do more to fix the social care system, they can Foxtrot_Oscar, because I do much MORE than my share already
- completely share your point about the young not wanting to look after the old, clearly not the case in this instance though
The point I was trying to make was that this measure is unwieldy, does not take individual circumstances into account, and presumes that no one does anything to help the elderly I.e. we are all tarnished as feckless. And there are many, many more people out there in my boat.
You mention paying for private health care due to waiting times on the NHS. Been there, got the t-shirt. But this new social care tax is the equivalent of saying to you, thanks for going private, you saved us a few bob there, well done. Now here's an extra tax bill for trying to help us out, we are calling it the private health tax, and everyone's got to pay it regardless of whether they have used private health care or not. "It aint right...it ain't proper..."
My answers
A VAT invoice only has to be provided to a taxable person which is why many retail/B2C businesses do as stated above.
VAT Regulations 1995: Obligation to provide a VAT invoice
13. —
(1) Save as otherwise provided in these Regulations, where a registered person—
(a) makes a taxable supply in the United Kingdom to a taxable person, or
(b) ......
(c) .......
he shall provide such persons as are mentioned above with a VAT invoice.
Indeed.
And amazingly (or not) very little mention about this aspect, despite the potentially significant ramifications.
HMRC will have ZERO incentive to authorise VAT repayments in a timely fashion.
Is that progress !?!
Thanks Jason
Not sure if this would be an improvement or not, as anyone that has dealt with the Online Selling Team at HMRC might well suggest that letting the computer work out the VAT and remove the human equation might well be better !
However, when it comes to HMRC and tax assessments, not a fan of 'shoot first, seek forgiveness later' approach, as it is usually the client/taxpayer (er...sorry, "customer") that pays the price.
Cheers Jason
Finally managed to get the application submitted. Frustratingly had to rekey the whole thing as it simply disappeared into the ether, and HMRC help desk less than 'helpful' as usual...
"This might be a migration issue, from old system to new system" - NO, this application was created wholly in the new system only
"This might be because you did the application outside of the hours from 9-5 Mon-Fri" - WTF ?! Why should that matter - NO, submission done during work hours on a Tuesday
"Maybe your submission receipt went in to junk/spam etc." - NO, we didn't get an auto acknowledgement OR the email acknowledgement, and certainly not in our junk mail box
One thing I did discover - really important - when you are doing the application form which opens in a new window, you need to make sure you flick back to the ASA agent account tab and do something to stop it logging out through inactivity (after 15mins). If you on the application tab, you wont get any warning of this !
Thanks again
Thanks Jason
Another topical discussion, but one which we quite frankly shouldn't be having in this day and age.
Having completed a client registration earlier last week, all of the above resonates acutely. One further comment/question really;
Are you aware of issues with receiving any sort of acknowledgement that your application was successfully submitted?
I received multiple error messages at the final submission stage, then eventually it appeared to go through okay. However, no acknowledgement message or email, and no suggestion that there is a pending registration anywhere in the agent portal.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
I have very little sympathy for the appellant, and the correct t result prevailed, however......
Hearing HMRC tell a business that it should have been better prepared during the pandemic and cover key staff ? Pot, kettle, black !
Not surprised this has been delayed given the backdrop of shambolic service levels at HMRC.
Whilst welcoming the departure away from Default Surcharge, not so happy about the demise of Repayment Supplement (which is being grossly overlooked in all this!)
"However, there are a small number of circumstances where an individual can reclaim VAT without a VAT number.
One such way, ............., is when a client builds a residence, usually to live in but occasionally to sell."
I thought the DIY VAT refund scheme was exclusively for non business purposes? If you are selling the house you must VAT regsiter and claim VAT as any other developer would?
Ha, ha. Well said.
I was still at HMRC when this shower of sh*te was being touted to front line VAT officers as the greatest thing ever.
All the newbies thought "Ooooh...." and all the experienced officers thought "this won't make a blind bit of difference"
Guess which category were marked down for being 'non corporate' and for not getting on board with the future?
In fairness, it wasn't just advisors that thought it was a complete waste of time.
Ian
Not sure if you are trying to have a dig at me or not. If not, my apologies. But if so, I just need to clarify a couple of points:
- the M-I-L has lived with us in our house for over 8 years
- we had to pay to convert part of our downstairs to form a bedroom and downstairs wetroom
- due to circumstance, she has/had no assets and had we 'dumped' her with the NHS/LA there would have been no money for them to take
- at a somewhat conservative cost of £750 per week for a nursing care home, I make that £312k over 8 years - shall I ask for a tax rebate? Shall I invoice the NHS for doing what I did? Of course not...I do not begrudge that one bit. But when a politican jumps up and says we must do more to fix the social care system, they can Foxtrot_Oscar, because I do much MORE than my share already
- completely share your point about the young not wanting to look after the old, clearly not the case in this instance though
The point I was trying to make was that this measure is unwieldy, does not take individual circumstances into account, and presumes that no one does anything to help the elderly I.e. we are all tarnished as feckless. And there are many, many more people out there in my boat.
You mention paying for private health care due to waiting times on the NHS. Been there, got the t-shirt. But this new social care tax is the equivalent of saying to you, thanks for going private, you saved us a few bob there, well done. Now here's an extra tax bill for trying to help us out, we are calling it the private health tax, and everyone's got to pay it regardless of whether they have used private health care or not. "It aint right...it ain't proper..."