" Why cannot the error message simply state that exemption/compliance has already been notified?
I had my first example of this last week and agree entirely with Euan. I would go further and suggest instead of an error message the next page should say "HMRC have confirmed you are not an employer for AE purposes. Please continue if you still wish to register".
As a note of caution I would suggest contacting CIS at Newry. I followed the PAYE Helpline advice a couple of years ago and submitted a year's worth of revised and missing CIS300. Each one created an automatic £100 penalty for a late return. I eventually contacted Newry and they cancelled the penalties for all the revised return, but there was still a penalty for the missing returns. You may not be able to avoid this and I'm surprised the contractor has not been contacted by HMRC.
and seems to be a purchasing issue and should be resolved by whoever agreed to the contract.
AOB68 wrote:
marks wrote:
My interpretation of monthly in advance is you are invoiced at the start of the month for the service to be provided in that month.
This is exactly how I thought we should be invoiced, at the beginning of each month for the service to be provided in that month.
The problem then is you are then not paying a month in advance, you will be paying half way through the month. It seems this supplier is trying to time the invoices so the payment is received in advance of the month of service, i.e. before the first of each month. A common situation. From what you have said they should be invoicing about 17th of each month with notice of DD 10 working days later. (10 days written notice used to be part of the conditions for DD's, unless the banks have changed that.)
Personally, I would cancel the DD and tell them to sling their hook. If they start on about breaking the contract you can point out they have already broken it by charging twice for the same period and then taking money fraudulently.
On the other hand, I know the recognised national suppliers do not act like this and if it is a local supplier who has undercut the big operators it is a case of you get what you pay for I’m afraid, but a little bit of hassle might be worth the savings.
is normal for services, although for waste collection in my area the main providers, Biffa/Sita/Hills, invoice at the end of the month for the number of bin “lifts” for that months. For hazardous waste there may be a separate licence fee paid annually in advance.
A good example of invoices for periods in advance is for telephone and broadband services, where the invoice might be split between rental charged in advance for the following month and calls, usage, etc. billed in arrears. Similarly rental invoices can be monthly, quarterly or even annually in advance and, if for premises, invoices can include services (electricity, broadband, etc.) paid in arrears when the usage is known. All maintenance/service contracts for things like alarms, website hosting, etc.are paid in advance.
There is no problem paying an invoice for services in advance, as long as you are sure you will receive the service you are paying for, and the only thing to remember is to include these charges in the calculation of prepayments at year end (and reverse them in the following year). So if, for example, your year end is 31st March the invoice dated 1st March for the April service will be included in the prepayments.
As lionofludesch points out you are actually paying 2 weeks in advance of the month you are paying for.
1, As Peter points out the Sage Payroll annual subscription includes support.
2. As far as I understand, to submit a revision/amendment for previous months you correct the figures and submit the next FPS and this will amend previous returns (on a cumulative basis). I've done it a couple of times in the past when I discovered that there were reasons I didn't know about which meant a director could not have the salary I had been reporting and posting to the DLA. I think it is more complicated in Sage but for Moneysoft I just cancelled the monthly salary, entered a leaving date and sent a FPS for the current month.
3. Don't believe everything HMRC say on the Employers Helpline, they have stitched me up in the past. I'm still sorting out a CIS problem with Newry because I followed advice from the Helpline about submitting amended returns.
My answers
I had my first example of this last week and agree entirely with Euan. I would go further and suggest instead of an error message the next page should say "HMRC have confirmed you are not an employer for AE purposes. Please continue if you still wish to register".
Can you let me have next week's Lottery numbers, please?
As a note of caution I would suggest contacting CIS at Newry. I followed the PAYE Helpline advice a couple of years ago and submitted a year's worth of revised and missing CIS300. Each one created an automatic £100 penalty for a late return. I eventually contacted Newry and they cancelled the penalties for all the revised return, but there was still a penalty for the missing returns. You may not be able to avoid this and I'm surprised the contractor has not been contacted by HMRC.
Thanks Lyn
Which pension/s are you using?
This is not an accounting problem
and seems to be a purchasing issue and should be resolved by whoever agreed to the contract.
The problem then is you are then not paying a month in advance, you will be paying half way through the month. It seems this supplier is trying to time the invoices so the payment is received in advance of the month of service, i.e. before the first of each month. A common situation. From what you have said they should be invoicing about 17th of each month with notice of DD 10 working days later. (10 days written notice used to be part of the conditions for DD's, unless the banks have changed that.)
Personally, I would cancel the DD and tell them to sling their hook. If they start on about breaking the contract you can point out they have already broken it by charging twice for the same period and then taking money fraudulently.
On the other hand, I know the recognised national suppliers do not act like this and if it is a local supplier who has undercut the big operators it is a case of you get what you pay for I’m afraid, but a little bit of hassle might be worth the savings.
Good points
Surely simpler to find an alternative supplier. They're all desperate for new customers.
Especially as many insist on payment by DD.
“Invoiced in advance”
is normal for services, although for waste collection in my area the main providers, Biffa/Sita/Hills, invoice at the end of the month for the number of bin “lifts” for that months. For hazardous waste there may be a separate licence fee paid annually in advance.
A good example of invoices for periods in advance is for telephone and broadband services, where the invoice might be split between rental charged in advance for the following month and calls, usage, etc. billed in arrears. Similarly rental invoices can be monthly, quarterly or even annually in advance and, if for premises, invoices can include services (electricity, broadband, etc.) paid in arrears when the usage is known. All maintenance/service contracts for things like alarms, website hosting, etc.are paid in advance.
There is no problem paying an invoice for services in advance, as long as you are sure you will receive the service you are paying for, and the only thing to remember is to include these charges in the calculation of prepayments at year end (and reverse them in the following year). So if, for example, your year end is 31st March the invoice dated 1st March for the April service will be included in the prepayments.
As lionofludesch points out you are actually paying 2 weeks in advance of the month you are paying for.
Thanks morgani
Another to cross of the list!
So I think my choice is between:
Nest - works well with Moneysoft but described as "clunky" by jjswjjsw above.
Smart - no issues reported yet.
Aviva - their website looks well organised for advisers/accountants but I can't see confirmation that there is no charge to employers.
Finally I need to check the DD arrangements to avoid the problems that have been mentioned.
Smart & Creative
Has anyone tried Smart Pensions or Creative Auto Enrolment with Moneysoft?
Three things to consider
1, As Peter points out the Sage Payroll annual subscription includes support.
2. As far as I understand, to submit a revision/amendment for previous months you correct the figures and submit the next FPS and this will amend previous returns (on a cumulative basis). I've done it a couple of times in the past when I discovered that there were reasons I didn't know about which meant a director could not have the salary I had been reporting and posting to the DLA. I think it is more complicated in Sage but for Moneysoft I just cancelled the monthly salary, entered a leaving date and sent a FPS for the current month.
3. Don't believe everything HMRC say on the Employers Helpline, they have stitched me up in the past. I'm still sorting out a CIS problem with Newry because I followed advice from the Helpline about submitting amended returns.