Any Answers answered: January 64-8 blues. By Rebecca Benneyworth

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Accepting a new client at this stage in the filing cycle will to some firms sound like madness itself, but when a long standing client turns up and tells me that both of her sons have gone self employed this year what can I say?

Both have contacted HMRC and registered as self employed, paying Class 2 NIC for the relevant period. Both have sought mums advice regarding bookkeeping and the retention of records and receipts, and to be frank, both have done very little in the period for which I need to file (up to 5 April 2006).

BUT, the big but of course is getting authorised to act for them in time to file before the end of the month. This is the gist of Stuart Jones' query too. How can we get authorised in time to file? The problem has also been highlighted by Heather...

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By JSJ54
12th Jan 2007 11:09

Thanks Rebecca
but it's actually worse than that. Without a UTR I can't apply for authorisation online.

I have discovered, however, that if I take the completed Tax Return and 64-8 to my local tax office they will enter the 64-8 and log the return straight away. But (sorry, but there is an awful lot of buts to this story!) they won't enter the 64-8 to allow me to submit online.

Only HMRC would look a gift horse in the mouth. If someone offered to complete my tax returns I'd be offering them a seat !

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12th Jan 2007 12:41

'File Only' by Iris
Does anyone know if you can 'File Only' using Iris.

IR technical support told us that there should be an overide in the third party software so that we can file only.

Iris have said that they have never heard of 'File Only' and that ir doesn't exist.

Can anyone confirm whether their software will file only.


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12th Jan 2007 12:52

I use Iris tax software and have successfully filed online for clients that have not been authorised either by 64-8 or online authorisation.

Just carry on in the normal way!

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12th Jan 2007 13:07

file only is not a feature of the software you use
"File only" is available for any software that can file by internet. It does not require anything particular in your software. Rebecca is right that the lack of UTR is the killer - it is essential for eFiling.

A warning on "file only" however. One of our customers phoned the HMRC to check if a return had actually gone in successfully (smoke emerging from his computer screen prevented the usual electronic checking !). He was told that they were not allowed to tell him if the return he had sent in was successful or not as there was no 64-8 in place.

A separate useful feature available in some tax software is the ability to use the AAO filing service to eFile the 64-8. This can streamline the process a bit, particularly if you have a lot to do.

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12th Jan 2007 13:24

I have successfully filed one return on IRIS this week where no 64-8 was in place previously.

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12th Jan 2007 13:26

No UTR? Not always a problem..
We always use 99999 99999 on Iris to file online without a UTR. They seem to accept this....most of the time!

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By RJ&Co
12th Jan 2007 16:23

Hi Rebecca, How are you doing?
I've had the problem mentioned above of not being sure of whether a client's return was logged where 64-8 was still in the post, (I submitted the return during the "no e-mail" period on Monday 8th Jan, and was not sure if it had got through or not.).

What you can do to establish the position is to clear down your FBI log for that client, (usually by editing out the accepted or logged date, but your software supplier will tell you what to do) and attempting to resubmit the return. If it goes through with a normal acceptance response from HMRC, then it definitely did not go through the first time. However, if the HMRC response document is a rejection with error code 2015, that means that its been rejected because it has already been accepted. It doesn't matter whether 64-8 is in place or not.

I wouldn't rely on this solely as proof, but it should give you some reassurance, especially as the 2015 rejection response will quote a CorrelationID number.

Kind regards
Richard Joseph

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12th Jan 2007 16:43

Great suggestion Richard!
Hi there.

Yes, oddly in manning a user helpline for taxpayers using our software without accountants I have suggested they try again to see if their return was accepted first time, but it had not occurred to me that a user could "tweak" his software and file again to check status. What a neat solution. As you say, not 100% foolproof, but actually as near as you're going to get at this time of year, and welcome comfort.

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12th Jan 2007 17:02

lack of UTR
I am very confused by Peter Allen's suggestion of using 9999999999 as a UTR. The whole of the HMRC system is based on the UTR - I cannot see how it would ever get tied up with the correct client record at the HMRC end. Did you get success reponses ? Hope you kept a hard copy - I'd love to see them.

As for checking the status of prior transmissions - your software should also be able to do a "list request". This will enquire of the HMRC computer the status of the last 200 or so transmissions. You should have the option of specifying a from and to date. My point about the lack of 64-8 was if you were trying to check the status over the phone if your pc was out of action.

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By JSJ54
22nd Jan 2007 15:48

It gets worse
The 64-8s were both logged on January 10th but only on the National Insurance system.

Because neither taxpayer had completed a CWF1 HMRC had not set up an SA record (fair enough) but I now have to submit a CWF1 & wait for it to be processed before the 64-8 can be registered.

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By JSJ54
20th Jan 2007 08:29

Still waiting
As quoted by HMRC:

" process 64-8s within ten working days, but the current turnaround time is around...the current turnaround time is around 5 days from receipt at the Central Agent..."


Two 64-8s posted to HMRC (first class post) January 9th.
Today (January 20th) still not processed.

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16th Jan 2007 14:08

New Clients
I know I shouldn't be moaning at having three new ones float through the front door unannounced, within an hour of opening up, yesterday. Even though it was a happy morn I did have the sickening feeling of dispair when contemplating the delay that will surely happen in registering them with HMRC. I told them they were in for penalties for late notification, but what they could not comprehand was that notification took longer than a few days - 42 days actually, as I was told on the phone!

In for a penny in for a pound, I also asked the lady at HMRC when we would be able to communication with them by email and come into the 20th cent, I purposely didn't say the 21st, that would be asking too much. "No plans", was the simplistic reply. I asked if they knew that postage costs were shooting skywards, "no comment" on that one.

I feel much better after that - thank you one and all.

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17th Jan 2007 15:40

What about the payment?
So - we have a new client, in full-time employment but with a few thousand pounds of S/E income from ebay trading, who has only recently notified HMRC of chargeability and does not have a UTR & HMRC say it will take up to 8 weeks to issue one.

OK - we prepare a return without a UTR, but with NINO and current PAYE reference and submit this manually to our local tax office.

There is tax to pay of £900 due by 31 January. If we wait until the UTR is issued this will not only incur interest but also a surcharge. If we submit a cheque in settlement of the tax due with the tax return will HMRC accept this and, if so, how does this get credited to his tax account later when the UTR is issued and the return processed? Is there any way to guarantee that everything is "married up" properly at the end of the day?

It all makes you think that the client should have done what most ebay traders do - say nothing about it!

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