Owner Kate Upcraft Consultancy Ltd
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Coronavirus job retention scheme: Get the details right

The guidance for employers on the coronavirus job retention scheme (CJRS) was updated on 20 April and 27 April with details on eligbility, and this article has been amended based on that guidance as well as the earlier updates issued throughout April, to cover all the key points about this scheme.

30th Apr 2020
Owner Kate Upcraft Consultancy Ltd
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Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme details - 30 April update

Who can claim?

All employers can benefit from the scheme, even owner-managed businesses. On 17 April Rishi Sunak, Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that CJRS grants would be available to pay furloughed employees until the end of June. This extension is widely understood to be put in place to avoid businesses having to start redundancy processes to take effect from the end of May.

The government wants the support to be as inclusive as possible. There is no conditionality related to having sufficient funds which for example have been applied to the business interruption loans. However, the employer must have set up a PAYE scheme before 19 March 2020, enrolled for PAYE online and have a UK bank account.

Owner-managed businesses can make a claim from the CJRS, effectively they will furlough themselves, but see comments on directors below.

The following employers would therefore qualify:

  • Businesses
  • Charities and not-for-profit organisations
  • Individuals employing domestic staff (4 April update)
  • Public sector organisations (see below re: public funding)

Which employees?

To reclaim a CJRS grant from HMRC, the employer has to designate employees as furloughed (essentially a period of paid leave when they cannot work) other terms and conditions of employment continue unless these have been varied too, (see How to Furlough below).

Whilst furloughed staff can’t do any work for the employer that furloughed them, they can undertake training, work for other unconnected employers (see Direction para 6.2), work on a self-employed basis (see Directors below) or as a volunteer.

The guidance refers to employees (and occasionally workers). HMRC confirmed on 4 April that the following individuals are covered:

  • Employees on any type of employment contract including zero-hours, flexible, part-time or fixed term
  • Apprentices (make sure you follow the guidance on continuing apprentice training and NMW)
  • Agency workers (including those employed by umbrella companies)
  • Office holders (including company directors) - but only on their PAYE income 
  • Salaried members of Limited Liability Partnerships (LLPs).
  • Limb (b) workers - ie those on PAYE not those who are self-employed
  • Nannies and other domestic staff.

HMRC confirmed on 9 April 2020 the following employees are covered:

  • Unpaid leave - CJRS grant only covers employees who were on unpaid leave on, or after, 28 February 2020 and furlough can only begin when that period was due to expire eg return from sabbatical. Unpaid leave that begin after 19 March 20 cannot be covered under the CJRs
  • Maternity and paternity leave - those on statutory leave can return from that leave and be furloughed.
  • Sick leave - Furloughed employees who become sick can be moved on to SSP, and sick employees can be furloughed, but the CJRS only covers salary (SSP will not be paid by employer as SSP has ended)
  • Shielding - employees who are caring for someone or shielding can be furloughed.
  • Working for another employer - these employees can be furloughed as long as they are doing no work for the employer who is furloughing them.
  • TUPE transfers - where the transfer was made from 19 March onwards it does not affect the ability to furlough and make a claim. 
  • PAYE restructures – where employees are moved to a new PAYE scheme within the business to consolidate two or more schemes after 19 March 20
  • Deemed employees- those subject to the off-payroll rules in the public sector. These individuals can be furloughed and the CJRS can be claimed as long as there is no public money going to the individual from the project them were working on. Note this is a complete change from the previous position  for deemed employees as it was understood.

The following individuals will not be covered:

  • Workers engaged under a contract for services, ie sole traders being paid gross via an invoice. These individuals will have to claim under the self-employed support scheme. 

A business may need to furlough all employees if it has effectively closed down, as in hospitality or non-food retail. However, it can choose to furlough a group of employees, whilst key workers continue to work, or to rotate groups between furloughing and working.

Directors

The HMRC CJRS Direction confirms that company directors can be furloughed as long as they do no work for the business which employs them or for any "person" connected to that business. "Person" in this context includes individuals, charities and other companies. A director/ shareholder who controls a company remains connected with the company while he controls it, so any work he performs as a self-employed individual is treated as indirect work for the company (CJRS Direction para 13.4).  

Paragraph 6.6 the CJRS Direction clarifies that directors may fulfil a duties or other obligations arising by or under an Act of Parliament relating to the filing of company accounts, or provision of other information relating to the administration of the director’s company. Those tasks are not counted as work for the company for CJRS purposes. HMRC guidance has indicated that the director must do no income generating work for their business.

Public sector bodies

The government expects that most public sector bodies will still have the majority of employees working in frontline services.

The 4 April HMRC guidance says: "Where employers receive public funding for staff costs, and that funding is continuing, we expect employers to use that money to continue to pay staff in the usual fashion – and correspondingly not furlough them. This also applies to non-public sector employers who receive public funding for staff costs."

This has generated an area of major confusion as there are numerous employers who receive some sort of public funding even though they are not strictly in the public sector, such as nurseries receiving early years’ funding and universities. The public funding may be only a small proportion of their overall income and the rest of their income has been severely impacted as a result of COVID-19, so some clarity is needed as to whether any public funding causes the employer to be unable to furlough. Let’s hope we can rely on the phrase: where organisations are not primarily funded by the government’ (my italics).

When were they employed?

On 15 April HMRC changed the cut-off date for eligible employees from a start date of 28 February or earlier to 19 March 2020. However, all employees included in the CJRS claim must also have been reported to HMRC in an RTI submission by midnight on 19 March 2020, and must have received some pay in 2019/20.  

HMRC categorically confirmed on 28 April that employees and directors who had reported thier only 2019/20 earnings under RTI after 19 March 2020 cannot be included in the CJRS. This affects all employees, not just directors on annual schemes who tend to pay themselves at the end of March.

Where employees were added to a March payroll retrospectively because they missed the February payroll cut-off date, they may have still missed the 19 March cut-off date if the March FPS was not sent until after 19 March.

It is useful to see in the updated HMRC guidance on 4 April (and expanded on 15 April) that people could be re-employed by their old employer if they had resigned since 28 February and had now had their new job offer withdrawn. However, this is the employer's choice and not an employee's right.

Employers need to be aware of the pitfalls of re-employing former employees. For example is this a new contract with a different salary and benefits package or are they being reinstated on the previous terms? It could make a huge difference to the pay they are receiving and what the employer can legitimately reclaim. Also will this additional period of service give the employee two years of employment and therefore entitlement to redundancy pay in the future or protection from unfair dismissal? If the employer decides not to reinstate everyone who was made redundant in March could there be an issue of discrimination?

The CJRS is effective from 1 March so changes to March payrolls can be made retrospectively to change employees’ status to ‘furloughed’ and reinstate those who had already been made redundant due to COVID-19. However, the PAYE scheme must have been in existence on 19 March 2020 (as per 15 April guidance).
 

How to furlough

The CJRS doesn’t override employment law. The employer must mutually agree with an employee, ideally in writing as it’s a contract change, that the employer is designating them as furloughed (there is no work for them due to COVID-19) and what the employer is planning to pay them whilst furloughed.

Decisions to furlough and the amount to be paid are a contract change. HMRC confirmed on 4 April that this decision must be put in writing to the employee and the employer must retain a record of this communication for five years. However, the employee does nto have to respond to this communication in writing. 

In order to take advantage of the scheme employees should be paid at least 80% of their pay based on their pay in the last pay period before 19 March 2020, tax year 2019/20, or the same pay period last year, whichever is the higher.

Some businesses may choose to continue to pay full salary even though they can only reclaim 80% up to the cap. Other employers may only be able to pay 80% of regular salary or even less than that, until the CJRS grant arrives – but they must retrospectively pay the employee to meet the 80% value or will be in breach of the scheme.

An employee can be furloughed for a minimum of three weeks at a time and the government have extended the scheme to 30 June 2020. The individual could remain furloughed even if the CJRS is not extended, but then the employer would not have any grant funding to cover their wages. HMRC confirmed on 20 April that a furlough period can be extended for a shorter period thant three weeks as long as the initial period of furlough was at least 21 days.

Salary sacrifice

There have been lots of questions about salary sacrifice, particularly in respect to pensions where employees are concerned because of the reduction in their net pay and employers because of the increase in their pension contribution exposure. The HMRC guidance updated on 4 April now says that future contract changes (and that is crucial as a salary sacrifice contract change should be in place before the payday in which it takes effect – so not retrospectively) are acceptable even if the sacrifice hasn’t been in place for 12 months as this can be classed as a lifestyle event.

But this will not affect the  CJRS claim which is based on the last pay day before 19 March. The Pensions Regulator provided new guidance on salary sacrifice on 17 April. It is vital that employers do not further reduce furlough pay to meet a sacrifice agreement or they will be in breach of the scheme.

How much will be paid?

The grant from the CJRS will be the lower of £2,500 per month per employee or 80% of gross regular wages plus employer NIC on the grant figure plus 3% employer pension contributions on the grant figure using the qualifying earnings threshold (see example). On 9 April HMRC confirmed that employers must not claim for the 3% pension contributions if the employee is not in the pension scheme. 

The apprenticeship levy can’t be claimed as part of the CJRS grant.

The 9 April update clarified that any employers' NI covered by the employment allowance cannot be included in the CJRS claim.

When calculating claim values for directors of owner-managed companies you can only consider the salary that has been subject to PAYE, not any dividends paid to those directors.

HMRC has made a calculator available help you work out how much to claim, which on 22 April was updated to deal with employees with varible pay.

Running the payroll

It is important to distinguish between the CJRS grant funding and normal payroll operations which continue, other than that employees won’t necessarily be receiving their former contractual wages. On 23 April HMRC published guidance on reporting payments from the CJRS under RTI.

To decide how much to pay, employers will need to calculate how much the CJRS grant will cover. The £2,500 cap refers to regular wages as in their last pay period before 19 March (per 15 April guidance), excluding bonuses, fees, "compulsory" commission and tips paid from a tronc. The HMRC guidance update on 4 April confirmed that overtime is to be included, but not discretionary bonuses (including tips not from a tronc) and commission payments, nor non-cash payments.

For an individual with variable pay, such that the last pay period before 19 March was not an indicative week or month, their average earnings over 2019/20 or the period of employment during that year can be used. The HMRC calculator has now been updated to cope wiht employees who have variable pay.

The figure that is agreed with the employee to be paid in the period of furlough will treated as normal earnings, subject to all statutory and voluntary deductions, reported under RTI with the remittances paid over to HMRC by the normal deadline.

What is paid through the payroll will not necessarily equal what can be reclaimed from HMRC.

The claim

A standalone portal was introduced by 20 April 2020 to allow the CJRS grants to be claimed. HMRC has published a step by step guide for employers on how to make a claim. For more information on how to claim, see this AccountingWEB article

Repeated claims for CJRS will be required for the same employer if the furlough period is extended. As long as the next claim follows on sequentially by date from the claim before, the CJRS claims can be submitted more than three weeks apart.

On 15 April HMRC confirmed that the employer will have to provide the NI number and name for each employee included in the claim, but the payroll number is optional. However, some employees don’t have a NINO, in which case you should contact the HMRC  COVID-19 Helpline on 0800 024 1222 who can process their claim over the phone.

A major concern is that there may be a requirement to have a PAYE online account in order to make a claim. Thousands of businesses, particularly SMEs that outsource their payroll operation to a tax agent don’t have a PAYE online account. Those businesses will have furloughed employees in March on the understanding, from the initial HMRC guidance, that as long as they had a UK bank account and an operational PAYE scheme that was sufficient to be able to make a reclaim in due course. ICAEW have provided a step by step guide to agent authorisation as it stands at 20 March 2020.

As one amount of CJRS grant will be claimed for a group of employees you need to consider how this will be reconciled once it is paid into the company’s bank account (it needs to be a UK account).

HMRC will reserve the right to investigate claims and cross-reference them to RTI data.

 

Replies (222)

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By sallyrichardson
09th Apr 2020 09:30

This was on the ATT website yesterday
On 8 April 2020, HMRC issued an announcement that businesses, and agents that are authorised to act on behalf of clients for PAYE matters, will be able to file claims on behalf of their clients. However, file only agents, including Payroll Bureaus, will not be able access the service for data protection reasons.

So if you have Agent Auth for PAYE on your agent account hopefully you should be OK.

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By Ian McTernan CTA
08th Apr 2020 13:13

This article needs updating to cover HMRC's missive sent out to agents.

It is not clear how employers will access the portal: if it is using Gov ID then most of mine are stuffed as they rely on us to deal with their taxes, payroll, etc but we are not registered as their agent for PAYE (why bother when you can submit anyway using payroll software).

The whole agent registration process is stupid, having to register for each individual tax and having different reference number for each tax is stupid too- but that's HMRC for you,, never simplify a system when you can make it more complicated..

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Replying to Ian McTernan CTA:
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By sallyrichardson
09th Apr 2020 09:29

Hi,

This was on the ATT website yesterday

On 8 April 2020, HMRC issued an announcement that businesses, and agents that are authorised to act on behalf of clients for PAYE matters, will be able to file claims on behalf of their clients. However, file only agents, including Payroll Bureaus, will not be able access the service for data protection reasons.

File only agents can help support their clients to make a claim by supplying information that they hold on employees to the clients. Businesses will need the following information on each of their furloughed employees in order to identify furloughed employees and calculate the claim amount:

National Insurance number, Salary, National Insurance and pension contribution information.

HMRC are anticipating that the demands for support by phone will exceed their capacity, and agents (including file only agents) are asked to help support businesses directly

We have authorisation for all of our clients so that we can check their account with the HMRC - late interest charged, what payments they have made etc. If you need to get this set up I'd do so now.

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By Laurence52
08th Apr 2020 13:26

HMRC have announced that the scheme will be ready to launch on 20 April. they will be contacting businesses as to what they need to do.

They will need the following information on each of their furloughed employees:
• National Insurance number
salary, National Insurance and pension contribution information that allows business to calculate the claim amount.

I've taken this from HMRC Covid 19 update email sent in the last hour.

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By vnss007
08th Apr 2020 13:59

Guidance on Gov.uk re. calculation of amount due for employees with variable wages does not relate to February earnings but is defined as follows:
If the employee has been employed for 12 months or more, you can claim the highest of either the:
same month’s earning from the previous year
average monthly earnings for the 2019-2020 tax year

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Replying to vnss007:
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By SXGuy
08th Apr 2020 14:17

Yes a variable paid employee. Not a fixed pay employee.

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By vnss007
08th Apr 2020 14:51

The article implies that the basis for those on variable pay is February, this isn't the case. I have several clients with employees on variable pay. Just wanted to make sure no-one was confused by the information in the article.

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By janecpowell
08th Apr 2020 14:02

Hi all

Great article and comments following it. Does anyone know if an overseas employer operating a UK payroll for its UK employees can access this scheme? I have seen contradictory thoughts on this from various reputable source websites.
Thanks

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Replying to janecpowell:
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By Brian Gooch
08th Apr 2020 15:35

"Any entity with a UK payroll....", so yes

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By Mr84
08th Apr 2020 14:23

Something not covered is where an employee is on variable pay and returned from maternity leave in 2019/20. If you take their pay from February 2019 it could be basic SMP and the average of the 2019/20 tax year earnings will be lower due to SMP. It seems only fair that the average is taken from the return to work date as is the case with employees that start part way through the tax year where their average is taken from the date they started at the employer. That seems the only logical way to get variable furlough pay to be reasonable and I'm sure the Government's intention is that all furloughed staff are to be paid fairly based on their regular earnings prior to furlough. The trouble is, I cannot see how I can raise this with HMRC? Even if you could get through to the Coronavirus helpline, I'm not sure you'll get any further advice other than that already published.

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Replying to Mr84:
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By Vicky Brough
08th Apr 2020 14:34

Was she variable pay due to SMP? It may not be much help but I posed the question to the CIPP regarding a client of mine that has an employee due off maternity on 01.04.20 - with the business being closed she was instantly furloughed from this date and the below is the response I received from the CIPP in terms of processing her furough pay:

"Even though the employee was in receipt of SMP, we believe that you would furlough her based on her contractual salary at the time (in February). If she came back in February, this is what you would have been obliged to pay, therefore this is what should be used."

Thanks.

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Replying to Vicky Brough:
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By Mr84
08th Apr 2020 14:45

Vicky Brough wrote:

Was she variable pay due to SMP? It may not be much help but I posed the question to the CIPP regarding a client of mine that has an employee due off maternity on 01.04.20 - with the business being closed she was instantly furloughed from this date and the below is the response I received from the CIPP in terms of processing her furough pay:

"Even though the employee was in receipt of SMP, we believe that you would furlough her based on her contractual salary at the time (in February). If she came back in February, this is what you would have been obliged to pay, therefore this is what should be used."

Thanks.

She is variable pay as she is paid by the hour at a fixed hourly rate rather than receiving a fixed monthly salary. Fixed monthly salary would have helped her as I believe she would have received 80% of her February earnings. She was on maternity leave from December 2018 to September 2019.

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Paul Johnson Owner Books and Figures
By PJ30
08th Apr 2020 14:44

Hi

One of my sole director/single employee LTD Co clients took a part time job late February. Accordingly we issued a P45 for his own Co . employment as the £710 pm would no longer have income tax/NIC “shelter” He is continuing to provide services through his LTD Co when not employed by new employer. Can he reinstate his LTD Co salary back to March 1st?

Regards. PAUL.

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Paul Johnson Owner Books and Figures
By PJ30
13th Apr 2020 13:13

Hi

One of my sole director/single employee LTD Co clients took a part time job late February. Accordingly we issued a P45 for his own Co . employment as the £710 pm would no longer have income tax/NIC “shelter” He is continuing to provide services through his LTD Co when not employed by new employer. Can he reinstate his LTD Co salary back to March 1st?

Regards. PAUL.

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Replying to PJ30:
Morph
By kevinringer
16th Apr 2020 13:27

What is the cessation date on the P45? If before 28/02/20 then 'no', if 28/02/20 or later then 'yes'.

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By Lin Wearn
09th Apr 2020 10:59

Good morning all

I hope that you can help me....

I run a small accountancy practice down here in the south west. My business has been badly affected by the Coronavirus outbreak, to a point that I have had no work provided to me since the middle of March 2020.

I employ my husband. I have an online PAYE account and he is paid a monthly salary at a level that he pays National Insurance.

My business is run from home. Obviously, given the current situation, I cannot have client callers and I am not happy to go and collect business records from clients' premises. In any event, I usually like to see my clients face to face when business records are being handed over. Plus.....most clients would not like to be incurring accountancy fees at the moment, if not absolutely necessary.

My question is....

Can I furlough my husband? I see no reason why this is not possible. Does the fact that we run the practice from home exclude me from being able to furlough him? He has been 'properly' employed by me for over 10 years now.

I also intend to 'claim' SEISS, if HMRC contact me in this regard. I suppose that is another question. Do other practitioners who run their businesses from home intend to 'claim' SEISS?
I would normally have received the majority of my year ends 31/12/2019 by now, but none have come in. My income has suffered, even though I hope that I will 'catch up' when things return to normal. I will certainly lose clients because of the financial impact on them and the fact that they will lose their businesses.

Your thoughts would be most appreciated.

Thanks. Stay safe.

Lin

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Replying to Lin Wearn:
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By Brian Gooch
09th Apr 2020 12:07

I can see no reason why you can't furlough your husband and claim 80% of his salary. To ensure he isn't doing any work you might need to be careful he doesn't answer phone calls from clients, as he is still in the vicinity, but otherwise it seems like a genuine furlough situation.

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By alphabetti
23rd Apr 2020 10:46

Has anyone had advice on if the grant claim will be for the whole period of Furlough (up to 3 months) in one lump or are we processing a grant claim each month?
Thanks

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Replying to alphabetti:
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By SXGuy
09th Apr 2020 17:53

It depends. You can claim in June for 3 months to March or you can claim each month seperately but each claim has to be 3 weeks apart.

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By kevin.robins
13th Apr 2020 19:24

Searched everywhere but cannot find and answer!

Can a claim be made before the employees are actually physically paid? For example employees are paid on the last day or the month but have been furloughed 23 March (so 23rd-31st March = only 9 days furlough pay in March salary - not a period of 3 weeks). Is it necessary to wait until the next pay day of 30 April to make the claim - or can the claim be made once 3 weeks of furloughing are completed i.e. after 21 - 9 = 12 April? (in practical terms as the portal does not open until 20 April it will be 4 weeks 23 March to 19 April in the first claim.)

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Replying to kevin.robins:
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By valakot
18th Apr 2020 01:27

Same question interest me.

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Replying to kevin.robins:
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By JEJ
19th Apr 2020 11:39

Government guidance which I hope helps:

You can only claim for periods when your employee was on furlough.

You cannot make more than one claim during a claim period - you should make your claim shortly before or during running payroll.

You can make your claim in anticipation of an imminent payroll run, at the point you run your payroll or after you have run your payroll . Claims can be backdated from 1 March 2020 where employees have already been furloughed from that date. A claim cannot start any earlier than the date the employee was first furloughed.

If your employee is furloughed over two calendar months, you’ll need to calculate the maximum amount for each calendar month and add them together.

If you’re claiming for multiple pay periods in one claim, you can calculate the total maximum using a mixture of:
* the daily maximum wage amount
* the weekly maximum wage amount
* the monthly maximum wage amount

Where a claim covers multiple pay periods, this calculation should be done for each and then added together.

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By fahimc97
14th Apr 2020 02:50

I opened my company and started operating at the end of January, with 5 employees, but have only just got an accountant and registered for the paye scheme now (just last week, due to not having an accountant and not being aware how or what I was supposed to do). My accountant has advised he will beackdate the paye from the end of january and I will pay all the N/I and taxes due obviously. My question is, because I have just registered now for paye, will I Be able to apply for the job retention scheme or not if I am furloughing workers? Any help would be appreciated.

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Replying to fahimc97:
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By SXGuy
14th Apr 2020 06:41

Prob not no.

Back dating paye actually having a paye scheme by the cut off date are two different things.

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By jennymartin
15th Apr 2020 15:58

ill start my own writing business in 2019 named https://wikicreatorsinc.com/ and i earn well but suddenly corona virus came and all world are in quarantine and due to this we face a very big loss hopefully we recover after this pandemic is over

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By EllaB
16th Apr 2020 08:34

HMRC's updated guidance now says to be able to include an employee they must have been included in an RTI submitted by 19.03.2020 - so many people with employment contracts dated around 27/28 February will not meet this criteria as they will have been included as a starter in the March RTI which most likely would have been submitted after 19.03.2020...

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By freshapple
16th Apr 2020 21:02

I have a client who is not able to pay her employees but would like to furlough them. Can she run payroll on RTI and then claim 80% and pay employees later once the grant is paid? She would like to keep her employees but not able to pay them. Is there a minimum level of salary payment?
Thank you

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By freshapple
16th Apr 2020 21:02

I have a client who is not able to pay her employees but would like to furlough them. Can she run payroll on RTI and then claim 80% and pay employees later once the grant is paid? She would like to keep her employees but not able to pay them. Is there a minimum level of salary payment?
Thank you

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Replying to freshapple:
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By SXGuy
16th Apr 2020 22:00

Check the guidence you'll have your answer.

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By confuseddotcom
17th Apr 2020 15:08

Can someone please clarify the point about the Tronc payments? The article states that these are covered by the scheme, but that doesn't seem to be what the HMRC guidance says - it specifically excludes tips. What is the right answer here? It makes a huge difference to some people.

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By Hasnein
17th Apr 2020 23:52

Some Directors pay themselves annually on 30 March. Can a claim be made in this case.

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Replying to Hasnein:
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By Brian Gooch
20th Apr 2020 10:07

Check the average annual pay and pay on the same period last year options.

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By VickyB2010
18th Apr 2020 00:05

Hi, I found this quite informative. Thank you.
I just have a query regarding CJRS.
Does anyone know the rules around applying for the scheme for an employee that is on the shielded group that works in a care home?
Can this be done or is the CJRS solely for a company that is closing or has been severely affected by Covid?
If not would it be SSP?
These are points that I’m finding it impossible to get a clear answer to.
Obviously we are not closing, reducing staff or making anyone redundant. Quite the opposite as we are recruiting.

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Replying to VickyB2010:
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By Brian Gooch
20th Apr 2020 10:06

So you aren't putting any employees on furlough are you? If so you have answered your own question, the grant is to support retention of employees for whom there is currently no work.

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Replying to Brian Gooch:
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By VickyB2010
20th Apr 2020 10:27

No but we will furlough the 12 week shielded staff if we are able. There isn’t work available for them as they cannot work from home.
Surely they can’t be expected to have unpaid leave or SSP for 12 weeks through no fault of their own?

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Replying to VickyB2010:
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By Brian Gooch
20th Apr 2020 14:24

If they are furloughed then yes, they should be able to be included in a claim. From the guidance "Employers are also entitled to furlough employees who are being shielded or off on long-term sick leave. It is up to employers to decide whether to furlough these employees. You can claim back from both the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme and the SSP rebate scheme for the same employee but not for the same period of time. When an employee is on furlough, you can only reclaim expenditure through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, and not the SSP rebate scheme. If a non-furloughed employee becomes ill, needs to self-isolate or be shielded, then you might qualify for the SSP rebate scheme, enabling you to claim up to two weeks of SSP per employee."

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Replying to Brian Gooch:
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By VickyB2010
22nd Apr 2020 23:11

Just to add..contacted HMRC, health & social care board and Citizens advice. They all say we can claim for an employee that is 12 week shielded and a keyworker.
Employers don’t have to but it wouldn’t say much of an employer if they chose not to. The idea is to retain staff, shielded staff are out of work due to effects of covid. Don’t think an employer could ‘retain’ those staff at any level if they didn’t help protect them, they would leave.
Furlough doesn’t cost a thing to the company but SSP does so easy decision now I know.

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By valakot
18th Apr 2020 01:28

Sorry if I missed it somewhere in the thread but my question is:
Can we claim only for the period when employee was furloughed in the past, or we can also claim for the period in the future?
I mean, employee was furloughed from 21st of March, I anticipate that he will be furloughed till 1st of July, If I make a claim now lets say on 1st of May when portal opens, can I claim for the whole period i.e. from 21st March - 1st July, or should I make a separate claims for each month? Like for example I make a first claim from 21st March - 30th of April, than make another claim from 1st May - 31st May, than another one.
I still don't understand do we make a claim for the whole period of furloughing (i.e. 4 months) or for each month of furloughing separately?
The guidance says:
"You can only claim for periods when your employee was on furlough."
"You cannot make more than one claim during a claim period - you should make your claim shortly before or during running payroll."
"You can make your claim in anticipation of an imminent payroll run, at the point you run your payroll or after you have run your payroll."

But this doesn't explain in plain english can we claim for the period that covers future month, meaning May and July when our employee will still be furloughed during that months?

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Replying to valakot:
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By Nicola Ed
19th Apr 2020 07:21

Hi no you have not missed anything - its not clear. Maybe deliberately so. I think one option is that the claim period is a multiple of 21 days - which is the minimum period of a claim. Once the calculator is published tomorrow morning and on line portal is open it should become obvious. I cannot see that a claim can be made in advance. What would happen if the employee went off sick, left employment etc? Unless the grant would have to be paid back under these circumstances.

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Replying to valakot:
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By JEJ
19th Apr 2020 11:46

Once the portal opens tomorrow hopefully it will be clear but I think the first claim is likely to be as you suggest 21/3 to 30/4.

Government guidance may help:

You can only claim for periods when your employee was on furlough.

You cannot make more than one claim during a claim period - you should make your claim shortly before or during running payroll.

You can make your claim in anticipation of an imminent payroll run, at the point you run your payroll or after you have run your payroll . Claims can be backdated from 1 March 2020 where employees have already been furloughed from that date. A claim cannot start any earlier than the date the employee was first furloughed.

If your employee is furloughed over two calendar months, you’ll need to calculate the maximum amount for each calendar month and add them together.

If you’re claiming for multiple pay periods in one claim, you can calculate the total maximum using a mixture of:
* the daily maximum wage amount
* the weekly maximum wage amount
* the monthly maximum wage amount

Where a claim covers multiple pay periods, this calculation should be done for each and then added together.

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Replying to valakot:
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By Brian Gooch
20th Apr 2020 08:23

If you want to make a claim for a single period to 1 July then you would have to wait to 1 July (or shortly before) to do it.

You can't claim months in advance because you don't know for sure how long employees will be on furlough, and because you won't be incurring the costs yet. Most grants can only be claimed once expenditure has been incurred, this one is a bit more flexible in allowing you to claim shortly in advance of running the payroll.

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Morph
By kevinringer
18th Apr 2020 06:45

NEW GUIDANCE PUBLISHED 17/04/20 including new guide with worked examples at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-80-of-your-employees-wages-to-claim.... This addresses holiday pay including bank holidays. There's a new step-by-step guide at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-job-retention-sch.... The employers guide has been updated (this is version 5) at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus....

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By matthew pennifold
18th Apr 2020 11:32

Just wondering about this;
"Owner-managed businesses can make a claim from the CJRS, effectively they will be furloughing themselves and the understanding is that they do no income generating work for their business but can continue to run the business from a statutory perspective, for example preparing their accounts and returns."
The grant is business income; work to generate this income would include making a claim under the scheme or supplying information for a claim. There seems to be a catch here, number 22.

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By Markm1972
21st Apr 2020 18:54

I have got a client who has not filed there RTI since December. They've been paying staff since then, this seems to be human error by the client.

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By Markm1972
21st Apr 2020 18:55

I have got a client who has not filed there RTI since December. They've been paying staff since then, this seems to be human error by the client.

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Replying to Markm1972:
Morph
By kevinringer
22nd Apr 2020 11:58

The rules at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus... are quite clear:

'Employees you can claim for
You can only claim for furloughed employees that were on your PAYE payroll on or before 19 March 2020 and which were notified to HMRC on an RTI submission on or before 19 March 2020.This means an RTI submission notifying payment in respect of that employee to HMRC must have been made on or before 19 March 2020.'

The employer has done RTIs to December so can claim for anyone RTI'd. The employer cannot claim for new starters since December who have not been RTI'd. I have seen nothing in the guidance or treasury direction about employers with reasonable excuses for failing to comply with the RTI requirements. Does your client have a reasonable excuse for failing to RTI since December? If so you could try arguing it with HMRC but I've no idea how you'd do it. There is certainly no 'human error' get-off-the-hook.

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Replying to kevinringer:
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By Markm1972
22nd Apr 2020 21:29

Their admitting it's their fault. If they can only claim for the employees prior to December then they've said they will accept that and take the hit themselves as only one new employee would be affected.

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Replying to Markm1972:
Morph
By kevinringer
23rd Apr 2020 09:55

The rules at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/work-out-80-of-your-employees-wages-to-claim... say:

'Work out 80% of wages for fixed rate full or part time employees on a salary
Where a claim covers multiple pay periods, this calculation should be done for each and then added together.

Claim for the 80% of the employee’s wages, from their last pay period before 19 March 2020.

If you have already calculated your claim based on the employee’s wages as of 28 February 2020, and this differs from their wages in their last pay period prior to 19 March 2020, you can choose to still use this calculation for your first claim.'

Though you can only claim for employees reported through FBI on or before 19 March I don't see anything to say you can only claim on pay reported through RTI by 19 March. If it was me I would get the RTIs up to 19 March then submit the CJRS claim. If the CJRS claim fails I'd phone HMRC to find out why.

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By L Chamberlain
22nd Apr 2020 08:50

Hi

Does anyone know if an employee was due a payrise on 1st April, can the 80% be claimed on the increased salary from 1st April or does the 80% have to be based on salary at 1st March?

Thanks

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