Director of Making Tax Digital HMRC
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HMRC's Giles McCallum on the purpose of MTD

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Giles McCallum, the director of Making Tax Digital, sets out HMRC’s vision for MTD and the benefits it will bring to the tax system.

19th Oct 2021
Director of Making Tax Digital HMRC
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Two things are key with Making Tax Digital (MTD): the first is that we must deliver an Income Tax Self-Assessment (ITSA) service centred around the end user – be that a taxpayer, an accountant or a bookkeeper.

Secondly, MTD should be a catalyst to drive up wider digital adoption by businesses, the self-employed and landlords, which I know will bring benefits to both the tax system and the way business operates. MTD is but the first building block of wider tax digitalisation and simplification in HMRC.

I also understand that not everyone will find the transition to digital easy. I’ve heard from those in the vanguard of digital adoption urging us to move further and faster. But I’ve also heard from those apprehensive, or indeed reluctant, about moving from paper-based processes to digital and from a single end of year submission to quarterly reporting.

Not everyone is ready to make this move just yet. That’s why the Financial Secretary to the Treasury (FST) announced the new date for the mandation of MTD ITSA, of April 2024. This will ensure we move at a pace which meets the needs of the full range of businesses and agents who will have to adopt new processes, while also ensuring that more customers have the opportunity to fully test the system by participating in the pilot.

Costs of complying

As part of the FST’s announcement, we also released our estimate of the likely costs of complying with MTD ITSA. These estimates were produced following a period of consultation with stakeholders, including business and accountancy representative bodies, testing our assumptions and gathering feedback to ensure that they reflected the likely range of experiences that different business types could expect.

Some of those who worry about the costs might reasonably ask why small businesses should have to bother with MTD at all. My view is clear. While there are costs involved, particularly in the transitional period, we expect businesses to experience benefits in the longer term, through wider digitalisation, additional resilience and time saved on administration.

Software options

The government thought long and hard about whether to produce a basic ‘one size fits all’ piece of software to use, or whether the software market was better placed to provide these solutions. We believe software suppliers will deliver products that work best for taxpayers. Facilitating a software market means a range of options will be available, so that software which does more for your business is available, whether that be tying in with bank feeds, business management tools or increased automation. So, our job now is to help develop a software market that provides for the breadth of different business needs. It will be able to do this far quicker than HMRC, and with a greater focus on continuous improvement as a result of market pressures.

For there to be a smooth transition to a more digital way of doing tax, we also believe that those with the most straightforward affairs should be able to choose a product to use which is free of charge, something we are working with the software industry to ensure is in place.

Moving to a quarterly rhythm

Alongside digitalisation one thing that some stakeholders want to understand is what drives the need to move to a quarterly rhythm of sending updates to HMRC. I want to be clear that these updates are not tax returns. They will just be a simple summary of income and expenditure drawn from the digital records you are already keeping, without the need for lots of reworking. Adjustments for tax purposes are made in an end of period statement at the end of the year and may be used to correct any inaccuracies in quarterly updates.

The core purpose behind quarterly updates is to bring record keeping more up-to-date. When a business keeps paper receipts throughout the year, the information in the resulting tax return is often incomplete and inaccurate. Receipts may have gone missing or simply a business may not remember the context of an expense. Keeping more up-to-date records will reduce those errors and give a better indication of how the business is performing.

Time to prepare

We continue to communicate with businesses and agents to raise awareness of these changes. It is vital that not only do they understand what will be required of them, but also that they are reassured that for the vast majority, this will be a fairly straightforward transition. It will bring their interaction with the tax system up-to-date and more in line with what they come to expect from the other digital services they rely on to run their business, as well as in their day-to-day lives.

The emerging evidence from our experience of MTD for VAT is that MTD is working as intended. It is cutting down on errors, making tax management easier to get right for businesses, and bringing more money into the Exchequer, which can be spent on our vital public services.

Now that we have additional time to prepare for MTD ITSA, HMRC is redoubling our efforts to take full advantage. We will work closely with businesses, agents and software suppliers to ensure we get this right and deliver a digital tax service fit for the 21st century.

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Hear from HMRC at AccountingWEB Live Expo 

Giles McCallum, along with HMRC’s chief executive Jim Harra and other HMRC representatives, will be speaking at AccountingWEB Live Expo on 1-2 December. This will be your chance to to put your questions to HMRC. Register to attend the event by clicking the link below.

Replies (228)

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By Hugo Fair
19th Oct 2021 15:39

1. "the first is that we must deliver an Income Tax Self-Assessment (ITSA) service centred around the end user – be that a taxpayer, an accountant or a bookkeeper."
However, the reality is that any two of these (and sometimes all three) are involved in the various processes that start with data capture and end with tax calcs & submitted accounts ... so who's in the driving-seat (or acting as the 'central end user' in HMRC-speak)?

2. "a catalyst to drive up wider digital adoption by businesses, the self-employed and landlords, which I know will bring benefits to both the tax system and the way business operates."
So where is the data (or even quantified assumptions) on which this certain knowledge is built, with regard to any benefits in the way a business operates?

3. "we also released our estimate of the likely costs of complying with MTD ITSA."
I trust the author has read the responses to those estimates (both on this site and from several of the professional bodies)? Inaccurate & misleading would the kindest/gentlest of extracts.

4. "we expect businesses to experience benefits in the longer term, through wider digitalisation, additional resilience and time saved on administration."
As with point 2, such an expectation is without value or merit unless the basis for it is quantified and made publicly transparent. Longer-term = when? Benefits = type and value? Resilience = what's the current problem (for business owner)? Administration = increased activities/effort unlikely to lead to saving in time!

5. "those with the most straightforward affairs should be able to choose a product to use which is free of charge."
This is not much use if the software developers' vision of straightforward and that of the taxpayer are almost diametrically opposed (in terms of content, process, maintenance and eventual use for tax comps & submission of returns). The evidence to date is that straightforward for developers means omitting all the facilities that might actually make the software useful or beneficial to the typical small taxpayer (rent from 2 or 3 split-owned properties and a couple of part-time self-employment activities).

6. "Adjustments for tax purposes are made in an end of period statement at the end of the year and may be used to correct any inaccuracies in quarterly updates."
Well not according to the developers working with your team on software currently being used in the Pilot. The EOPS is merely a Confirmation statement (with no figures included) that agrees the quarterly figures already submitted (possibly after an intervening Update submission to correct any incorrect or missing values from the Quarterly submissions).
Only then can the normal process of accounts preparation and tax computation begin ... which will require loads of new figures to be submitted (akin to those in the existing SATR) - with a separate set of these for each trade activity - before eventually a Completion submission can be submitted to confirm that HMRC should now have everything needed (as per the old SATR).

There is as yet no set of published documentation that describes this overall workflow (let alone the detail of each of the component parts) - nor is there a consistently agreed set of terminology used to label the components & processes.
Only when such documentation is made public can any pretence of communication (or indeed consultation) with all the stakeholders be claimed to have started ... and, even with the recently announced 1 year delay, there is precious little time in which HMRC can make things clear!

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By raybackler
20th Oct 2021 11:33

This is a brilliant challenge to the woolly justifications that are full of bluster and have rightly been called out.

HMRC is there to collect tax, not to force small businesses into a horrendous endless amount of submissions and updates that won't collect a single penny more in tax.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Paul Crowley
21st Oct 2021 12:25

Only 133 replies to this thread so far
@ Giles
More opinions can be found on:

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/the-worm-that-turned

436 comments on that one at time of printing

Do you now understand what the smaller sized accountant in practice thinks?
My guess is that you have never met one
Take up the 2 offers to date to see what it is like at the coal face

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Agutter Accounts
21st Oct 2021 12:25

Yes this small semi-retired accountant who deals with microbusinesses and individual taxpayers will endorse what you say. I just do my best to keep my clients out of trouble and keep things as simple as possible for them.

I work on the principle of "render under Caesar that which is Caesar's but don't render too much". Or as my mother might have said "what the eye does not see the heart does not grieve over."

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Replying to Agutter Accounts:
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By lh3f9764bg1g
22nd Oct 2021 13:47

What did Caesar ever do for us . . . . . . . . ?

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Replying to lh3f9764bg1g:
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By lionofludesch
22nd Oct 2021 13:54

lh3f9764bg1g wrote:

What did Caesar ever do for us . . . . . . . . ?

The fella that used to play for Surrey ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By johnjenkins
22nd Oct 2021 14:21

No the footballer who Arsenal could do with now.

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Replying to johnjenkins:
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By lionofludesch
22nd Oct 2021 14:50

johnjenkins wrote:

No the footballer who Arsenal could do with now.

Billy McNeill ?

Too late for that .........

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Agutter Accounts
22nd Oct 2021 15:20

Wow. That is a name from the very distant past.

Since when was this thread about football though?

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Replying to Agutter Accounts:
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By lionofludesch
22nd Oct 2021 15:24

Agutter Accounts wrote:

Wow. That is a name from the very distant past.

Since when was this thread about football though?

Since Caesar was mentioned.

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Replying to Agutter Accounts:
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By johnjenkins
22nd Oct 2021 15:52

Anything contentious on this site.

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By alialdabawi
22nd Oct 2021 14:59

Good set of comments - unanimous for the most part - on, and this time by(!), yet another person lazily doing a copy-paste of the government's head-in-the-cloud stance on the realities of this project.

Also yet another thread where it is futile attempting to follow the comments' progression after first visiting the thread, given that 'NEW' posts on pages 2 onward of the comments are not marked as such.

To the author of this article:
- Yes, we the profession DO digitise where it is beneficial to do so
- Yes, we the profession DO understand our clients better than you do
- Yes, we the profession WILL do your job for you and advise our clients of this in preparation for it
- Yes, we the profession WILL support our clients to do their best in meeting all compliance requirements
- No, we the profession DO NOT agree that this is a sensible project in it's current iteration and direction
- No, we the profession DO NOT accept that this will only cost £6/filing to the end-user
- Work WITH us and allow ALL parties to realise the synergies from a cooperative approach
- We the profession have more statements to make but we value our time and sanity more than attempting to convince the obdurate

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By djtax
26th Oct 2021 11:30

The HMRC author of the above states:
'We continue to communicate with businesses and agents to raise awareness of these changes'
What utter misleading rubbish! I agree there is an awareness amongst us accountants but 'communicate with businesses'? Has anyone seen any hint of any advertising campaign to the general business public! What planet is this guy living on....!!

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By Paul Crowley
19th Oct 2021 15:48

"Secondly, MTD should be a catalyst to drive up wider digital adoption by businesses, the self-employed and landlords, which I know will bring benefits to both the tax system and the way business operates. MTD is but the first building block of wider tax digitalisation and simplification in HMRC."

WHY
This is HMRC telling grown up people to eat their horrible brussel sprouts
I know of no landlord that will be benefitted by MTD. I have spoken to 55 landlords. How many did you personally speak to?
If people think it is really good no mandation needed

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By Paul Crowley
19th Oct 2021 15:58

" For there to be a smooth transition to a more digital way of doing tax, we also believe that those with the most straightforward affairs should be able to choose a product to use which is free of charge, something we are working with the software industry to ensure is in place."

What promises on support have been made?
Help lines will not be able to cope with 4 Million new users who have not previously needed any software for their simple tax affairs.
Autofeeds from a single bank account for self-employment, rent joint with wife and wife's employed income unlikely even to get the income figure correct. (rent income received fron letting agent net of expensers
Not even worth mentioning payments

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
19th Oct 2021 17:50

Dear Giles,

May I invite you to come to my office and see FIRST HAND what accountants do in practice?

I am more than willing to give up a half day of my time to speak with you and try and explain what it is we actually do to take client data and turn it into a tax return so the client can pay the right amount of tax.

In particular I would like to show you how we prepare landlords tax returns, and why we do not advocate digital bookkeeping methods (other than excel) for these clients.

I am a small practice (2 persons) located in the South East within 1 hour or so of London. We file around 350 tax returns per annum covering landlords, sole traders, partnerships and personal tax.

We have clients on a variety of cloud and non-cloud software, as well as excel clients and the odd older client who brings in papers so we cover the whole range.

My local village pub is excellent and I would be very pleased to buy you lunch if you time things well.

Please contact via private messages.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By Paul Crowley
19th Oct 2021 17:55

I would love to be a fly on the wall.
I'll pay for lunch and drinks. Giles would need a few.

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
19th Oct 2021 18:32

its a serious offer.

HMRC very much need to get "back to floor" to understand what it is we actually do.

There seem to not be s single member of the senior team who is an accountant of any type, let along one who has recent practice experience of dealing with small clients.

Its like trying to develop a new car without having ever been a passenger on the public roads, let alone driven one. We have done 250,000 miles at the wheel. Talk to us properly.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By norstar
20th Oct 2021 10:32

Absolutely. This is the core problem. Incidentally also the problem with the ACCA

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Replying to norstar:
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By Ben Alligin
20th Oct 2021 11:19

Ditto ICAEW

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By djtax
26th Oct 2021 11:24

I would make the same offer.
However based on experience of recent years HMRC senior decision makers seem to prefer to stay in splendid isolation in their ivory towers in utter ignorance of what really goes on in the outside world, especially that of small businesses who do not have a handy IT dept to pass all the MTD c**p on to.

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By bluebaron
19th Oct 2021 17:35

The purpose of MTD is to add an unnecessary burden on small businesses, and make life even more difficult for them, as they emerge from the covid pandemic, and also face an NI increase. The threshold is far too low, and many businesses will inevitably fail to comply with the requirements.

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By Paul Crowley
19th Oct 2021 17:51

Dear Giles
The UK will not have enough bookkeepers to do the work
Clients that do not currently need software will look to others to get the job done
You will not be teaching these newbies and you will not be handholding on software that as yet I have minimal knowledge of
My fees will double (on the small jobs) and there will not be the time to deal with all the little jobs I currently do very inexpensively, because I have a social conscience.
What is for certain is that my firm will not cope with our existing clients
We will need less clients and need to charge more
For goodness sake it took HMRC until October to be able to even attempt to codify the rules and even now HMRC just do not know how to cope with anything but the most simple of partnerships

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By PennyPincher
19th Oct 2021 18:00

Another overpaid civil servant who doesn’t live in the real world telling us accountants how easy our job is going to be because they have thought of this great wonderful idea in their heads.

I’m all for further moves towards a digital world and will see MTD as an opportunity (mainly to up fees and get rid of the deadwood) but it really annoys me when they come out with lies about why it’s to everyone’s benefit, when it really isn’t for everyone, or that it will cost only £6 extra for all this work. Just tell the truth about why you're doing it and set a reasonable threshold ie not £10k

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By memyself-eye
19th Oct 2021 18:01

This w... (I could go on) brings "A host of experience and disciplined leadership to MTD...."
Who dreams up this rubbish?
Thank the good lord I no longer have to explain this tosh to clients...I'm off on my boat!

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By More unearned luck
19th Oct 2021 18:47

Apart from the compulsory quarterly reporting and electronic recording keeping Making Tax unnecessarily difficult is fine.

It is arrogant of HMRC to think that they know better than the taxpayer how he or she keep his/her records. The businesses that are not yet using computers probably are not doing so as it not best for them.

I have clients that rent farmland and receive rent twice a year on Lady Day and at Michaelmas with no expenses. They don't need Sage or Quick Books to record just two transactions. I also have clients that let property on tenant's repairing leases and have four receipts a year and one insurance premium to pay. Again electronic records are OTT.

Tories are traditionally against red tape. Yet this government proposes to make taxpayers provide data to HMRC five times more frequently as at present. With, of course, a roughly corresponding chance of being charged a penalty for missing a deadline. (There is to be a new points means fines system).

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By More unearned luck
19th Oct 2021 18:57

I add, that if quality reporting is to improve record keeping then it is unnecessary as HMRC already have the power to fine taxpayers £3,000 for failing to keep proper records. If a large number of taxpayers aren't keeping good records then it is HMRC's fault for not policing taxpayers effectively. It is the wrong solution to increase almost all taxpayers' compliance costs. This is fining innocent and guilty alike.

And if they are going to make me do something I don't want to do then they should stop calling me a customer. It adds insult to injury.

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Replying to More unearned luck:
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
19th Oct 2021 19:09

There is the implicit assumption that clients and by extension their accountants are idiots for not using digital methods.

What is not acknowledged is, by and large, most clients are using the digital where there is inclination to do so, and there is a benefit for the client.

Whilst there may still be some clients for whom this is not the case, those numbers are dwindling day by day.

We are however left with a number of clients for whom digital will never be the right answer or for whom it will always take longer to do quarterly than annually. We have numerous clients with sub 100 transactions per annum, many with sub 25. Several have less than 10 and yet are caught by the rules.

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By AdamMurphy
19th Oct 2021 20:40

I think the Tories stopped being against red tape and "for the small business" as soon as they got back into power. Look at how much red tape has increased since they got back in, all the way back to the coalition.

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By GHarr497688
19th Oct 2021 19:02

Dear Giles

Read the comments on AWEB.
Check the records being produced for MTD for VAT.
Enter some sample data on Xero or Sage.
Come and sit with me for a day and see what I have to put up with.
Survey my 80 clients.
Read the various condemning report on MTD apart from Software and HMRC who support it.
Explain why you ignore the professional who are supposed to support , sell and promote MTD.

When you have shown you have read all the data and thought it through - rewrite your ridiculous propaganda garbage.

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By Open all hours
19th Oct 2021 19:03

Dear Giles,

Another serious offer. I’ll be your tour manager and work for expenses. After visiting Ireallyshould in the south east I’m sure we could organise a schedule which leads through town and country to Yorkshire where we have a number of clients who would like to ‘have a word’.

You may need to do some research, the real world is somewhat different from the rarified one which you and your gold plated, index linked colleagues enjoy. Nevertheless, we will make allowances and offer generous hospitality and some seriously great ideas which will embrace a workable form of MTD and transform HMRC into a customer focused, efficient organisation.

Ball in your court, Giles.

Thanks (8)
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By North East Accountant
19th Oct 2021 19:30

Giles, with all due respect, I don't think that you or your colleagues at HMRC understand the "Tsunami" that you're going to unleash in April 2024.

ICAEW, Big software companies are not telling you as it is, as they have big vested interests.

Are you listening to anyone in practice who can actually tell you how it is at the front line? (And I'm not counting Rebecca B who lectures extensively and put all her clients on cloud software when her daughter joined her).

MTD is great for Accountants but who is looking out for the small business owner and landlord.....I am.

There is far too much to go into here so I'll make you an offer.

Either you can come and see me or alternatively I'll come and see you when we can discuss all things MTD.....and I'll even pay all my own travel expenses.

I'm 50 and have over 30 years looking after the small business owners and landlords who are going to be hit with MTD in 2024....so I have a rough idea what I'm talking about.

Do you actually want to hear the facts, from the trenches how it will affect millions of HMRC customers?

It needs to be a substantive meeting mind as there is so much to discuss.

Do you dare to meet someone from the front line? PM if you're up for it.

And if you are on for it how about inviting Jon Griffey too....(I don't know him but he got the most responses ever to a post on Accounting Web);
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/the-worm-that-turned

Thanks (17)
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By Open all hours
19th Oct 2021 20:09

Dear Giles,

Another serious offer. I’ll be your tour manager and work for expenses. After visiting Ireallyshould in the south east I’m sure we could organise a schedule which leads through town and country to Yorkshire where we have a number of clients who would like to ‘have a word’.

You may need to do some research, the real world is somewhat different from the rarified one which you and your gold plated, index linked colleagues enjoy. Nevertheless, we will make allowances and offer generous hospitality and some seriously great ideas which will embrace a workable form of MTD and transform HMRC into a customer focused, efficient organisation.

Ball in your court, Giles.

Thanks (1)
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By AdamMurphy
19th Oct 2021 20:44

To borrow a line from Blackadder Goes Forth:"It rhymes with clucking bell"

Come down out of your ivory tower to any of us in practice and see how much of a mess you will cause.

Clients which went onto cloud software after seeing the lies in the TV adverts from certain companies made a bigger mess of things than when they just kept simple records on Excel. How does that fit in with using software to reduce errors.

PLEASE stop listening to software providers. Of course they're going to tell you everything in the garden is rosy. It's no different to a communist surrounding himself with yes men.

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By ru68y
19th Oct 2021 22:47

The article just highlights how out of touch HMRC really are with (as they call them) their customers!

Customers should have a choice not be forced upon.

HMRC need to concentrate on the basics like issuing refunds and processing tax returns submitted, which are taking months to happen and a lot of chasing from accountants.

I know of 2 accountants planning their than planned early retirement to coincide with MTD.

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
20th Oct 2021 08:44

Giles McCallum wrote:
But I’ve also heard from those apprehensive, or indeed reluctant, about moving from paper-based processes to digital and from a single end of year submission to quarterly reporting.

Not everyone is ready to make this move just yet.

The idiotic mindset of HMRC in a couple of sentences. That digital record-keeping for all is undeniably the answer. People just need to "get ready" and get over their (presuambly irrational to HMRC's minds) fears.

Did he write his own bio by the way? If so, I hope he hasn't dislocated his arm with all the self-aggrandising back-patting in it.

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Tornado
By Tornado
20th Oct 2021 09:40

He is good at his job. He makes it sound as though MTD is easy and simple and something that will benefit all of us and we will all be living in a Tax Paradise. I can't wait.

He clearly has not taken any notice of the hundreds(thousands) of points raised on AWEB alone as to why we are not heading for Paradise. Instead of just repeating parrot fashion the same old guff that we have heard before, he needs to get real and take notice of the points that hundreds (thousands) of people in the know have to say to him.

Most people are not against MTD as such, but the biggest problem is the speed and chaotic way that it is being introduced. I believe there will eventually be a realisation that this has to be slowed down, and the first and easiest way to do this is to increase the limit to £85,000. I am 96% sure that HMRC will do this at the last minute as I do not believe they have a choice.

Good luck to him if he thinks everything is fine, as he is in for a big shock.

There is a bit of good news, however. A letter I wrote in May to HMRC was replied to yesterday so congratulations to HMRC for getting around to this. Unfortunately I have queries on that letter so I will write back and I guess I can now expect a reply in March.

It is all about the wonders of Digital Technology but why can't we communicate with HMRC by email even now and expect a response within two weeks?

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Replying to Tornado:
Tornado
By Tornado
20th Oct 2021 12:03

Further to my above comments, I have today replied to HMRC's letter. It is not easy to understand why an organisation that has massive funding and recources, like HMRC, is unable to reply to a letter in less than 5 months when I can do it in a day. This clearly shows just how Un-Digital they really are and I can't see how MTD will improve this.

It might be better to invest in people that can make informed decisions rather than technology that literally only thinks in a 'Yes' or 'No' mode.

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By Jo Nokes
20th Oct 2021 09:58

I've sent a private message to Giles, and I suggest everyone does so. I suggested that he should post a response to the multitude of criticisms here.

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Tornado
By Tornado
20th Oct 2021 10:09

The most alarming aspect of this article is that Giles might actually believe what he is saying.

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By petestar1969
20th Oct 2021 10:24

Good to read him referring to taxpayers as taxpayers rather than customers.

I stopped reading after the 4th paragraph...

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Replying to petestar1969:
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By Latinaid
21st Oct 2021 09:31

Oh, you should read the rest, it's full of laughs - most entertaining. My favourite bit was 'The government thought long and hard ...' - well, there's a first time for everything, I suppose.

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By norstar
20th Oct 2021 10:26

I started to write something critiquing this piece, but then I felt the entire thing was better summed up with "LOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL".

If you don't laugh, you cry. Come and work with me for a week Giles, then lets see if you still think this nonsense holds true.

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David Ross
By davidross
20th Oct 2021 10:28

As before, Giles will know that this is a small echo chamber where the refuseniks convince each other that the world is about to end.

Meanwhile the rest of us will get on with it.

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Replying to davidross:
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By philaccountant
20th Oct 2021 11:04

I'm not inherently against MTD. My main concern is the workload. We are already being worked to the bone, with people in the profession burning out left, right and centre.

The MTD system is set up in such a way that all the work will be concentrated into one chaotic month, followed by two months with no MTD submissions whatsoever. It's a stupid idea to put a 1 month deadline when everyone is going to be on the same rotation.

With VAT, the quarterly system spreads the workload continually throughout the year. MTD undermines this completely, as it will be incredibly inefficient to have a VAT rotation that doesn't align with an MTD rotation.

Why not just have a 3 month deadline for each quarter and allow us to spread the workload evenly. Is it really that much to ask?!

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Replying to davidross:
Tornado
By Tornado
20th Oct 2021 11:05

A lone voice.

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Replying to davidross:
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By raybackler
20th Oct 2021 11:55

I have many clients who run their business through a limited company and personally own some buy to let property. At the moment they have quarterly VAT Returns for the company run on cloud software, then the annual figures are extracted into software that produces the annual accounts and Corporation Tax Return, again digitally submitted. The salary and dividend data from this is extracted on to the self assessment tax return. To this is added the summary of income and expenses for the buy to lets, a simple addition to the SATR, which is produced from a summary of the twelve estate agents submissions and with any additional maintenance costs then added. This is then part of the digital submission of the SATR. All smooth flowing and simple.

What MTD is going to do is require this latter process for the buy to lets to be digitised and filed quarterly and separately from the income from the limited company, for something that is dead simple to do once per year. It will not increase accuracy one iota, but it will increase the workload considerably for accountants and their clients.

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Replying to davidross:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
20th Oct 2021 12:27

davidross wrote:

As before, Giles will know that this is a small echo chamber where the refuseniks convince each other that the world is about to end.

Meanwhile the rest of us will get on with it.

So you're saying that HMRC should ignore multiple people working with SMEs on the assumption that they are only objecting for the sake of objecting? They should not even look at the points raised to see if they have any merit?

It is this sort of blinkered thinking that has raised the ire of accountants. Rather than address the genuine issues raised, just ignore everything that does not agree with the vision.

Do you plan to make any decent contribution to the debate yourself? Let's start with a simple one. Is there any good reason for not raising the income limit for MTD to a higher figure? £85,000, the VAT registration has been posited for good reason. The current limit is below the personal allowance, which creates the ludicrous situation where someone that won't owe any tax anyway will have to keep electronic records and submit quarterly. What value is there in that for anyone?

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Replying to davidross:
RLI
By lionofludesch
20th Oct 2021 14:34

davidross wrote:

As before, Giles will know that this is a small echo chamber where the refuseniks convince each other that the world is about to end.

Meanwhile the rest of us will get on with it.

You're welcome to it.

I never liked low grade work.

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Replying to davidross:
avatar
By AnnAccountant
21st Oct 2021 12:14

This is how the 1930s happened and why it will happen again - and maybe soon.

So many people just say "Well, if those are the rules, I will blindly and obediently follow them"

They don't question.

Incidentally, you might wish to look up where the term "refuseniks" comes from.

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