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This is beyond a joke now
and as well as unfair to clients significantly increases client contact time as we have to keep reassuring them that their case will be dealt with and it is not due to incompetance on our part. It is time that HMRC responses beyond the target times carry a penalty in the same way that every piece of compliance work seems to carry a threat of a penalty to us. The current crazy time limit causing problems to us is the 30 day to file a non-resident capital gains tax declaration. 30 days and we're dealing with clients often in far flung parts of the world !
Author, author
Pleasing at it is to see that word used, it means a senseless or disorienting complexity, This issue is a depressingly simple one, HMRC is woefully under-resourced for dealing with correspondence in a reasonable timescale.Sounds a little nightmarish, almost Kafkaesque.
Perhaps Orwellian (destructive to the welfare of a free and open society) is more appropriate.
Pity...
That debt management don't operate at the same speed. We're finding that the DMU can routinely operate within 7 days, but can't address the underlying reason for the pursuit of tax, so when you try and write to say PAYE or SA tax departments to resolve the error, they take 3-4 months. By that time the DMU has sent a bailiff, taken all your goods and sold them.
Totally wrong.
not the first time HMRC called Kafkaesque
An Upper Tribunal judge made a similar observation here (http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/AAC/2015/198.html - paragraph 8):
"The FTT was erroneously lured into deciding the case on the basis that the claimant had allegedly failed to respond adequately to a letter sent to him by HMRC. This letter had been sent to him not just after the original decision had been made, but after the claimant had lodged his appeal. This is the stuff of Kafka."
I just hope HMRC don't appeal to the CoA claiming that the judge should have said: "This is the stuff of Orwell".
Haha
An Upper Tribunal judge made a similar observation here (http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/AAC/2015/198.html - paragraph 8):
"The FTT was erroneously lured into deciding the case on the basis that the claimant had allegedly failed to respond adequately to a letter sent to him by HMRC. This letter had been sent to him not just after the original decision had been made, but after the claimant had lodged his appeal. This is the stuff of Kafka."
I just hope HMRC don't appeal to the CoA claiming that the judge should have said: "This is the stuff of Orwell".
Probably one of my favourite comments on Aweb so far. Tremendous.
Add HMRC mail times to overseas residents
Add HMRC outbound mail times to overseas taxpayers to delays in their opening of appeal letters and you end up with a great deal of adviser time spent reassuring clients, and convincing HMRC overseas debt management not to remove clients from non-resident landlord scheme.
On the positive side we discovered the structured email system to overseas debt management works! Positive response within 36 hours on suspension of action, which we'd failed to achieve on phone. (We'd included some additional details eventually found on an address HMRC had been using for client, so asked the debt team to forward to appeals team; will never know if that attempt to fast track backdoor communication to appeals team was actually actioned)
The targets they're missing are bad enough.
Personally I think the target of 80% of mail cleared within three weeks is already a very low standard, the fact they're missing it by so much is appalling. I've been chasing a tax refund for a client we applied for mid January, last week they got in touch with him to advise they needed more information.
I've called so many times now that were we to bill the client for the time I've actually spent chasing this he would have no refund left to him, as it is I expect we'll take a large hit on his fee. I try to tell people in the office about this sorry tale of woe and they all just nod knowingly and grimace, every interaction with anyone in HMRC is exactly the same.
Try invoicing HMRC
Where we've had failures by HMRC in this manner, I have invoiced them or applied for compensation for the client. They usually insist on your invoicing the client then recompense them - eventually.
If everyone did this, they'd soon "sharpen up".
COMPLAINTS
I do complain to HMRC on delays of paying refunds and other serious isues . The Complaints Section are even worse at responding to my letters .I have actually complained to the Complaints Dept... Orwellian or CoCO the Clown !
I am still waiting for compensation after 15 months so I contacted the Adjudicator who wrote to me stating that they would not look at my complaint of HMMRC taking to long as HMRC informd them that the case was not finished.........of course it isn't Adjudicator , that was the problem
THEY ARE ALL QUITE MAD .......out of control Government Department presided over by Gideon ( I am only interested in statistics NOT facts) and Hopeless Homer..
I am now considering taking out CCJs against non payment of CIS limited company refunds
Any ideas pse
Shambles
Its a complete shambles the whole department. Took me over 8 minutes last week just to change a tax code for a client to remove something that shouldn't have been there! The sooner we can get access to their systems so simple jobs like this can be done by agents the better.
Appeal and other issues
How can taxpayers deal with appeals if their post arrive late and the time limit for appeals is 30 days? However, for them the reply time is 'in due course' meaning 'whenever... we feel like...or never'
Maybe is time that another administrative procedure is introduced, similar to the one in Spain. If they fail to respond within the legal time, let's say 30 days, it means that the appeal has been upheld or the claim agreed. That would put some pressure on them to deal with matters.
Let's consider seriously what happens when a taxpayer fails or takes longer to reply to a letter from HMRC. They would send you a nasty one as a follow up. And not mentioning Debt Management and Banking when they say on their letters 'we'll monitor how long you take to respond to this letter'. Do they monitor themselves?
On another very important point, any taxpayer with arrears over more than a year and making partial payments will notice that HMRC leaves balances opened on earlier years so that they can continue to charge late payment fee and interest, which I consider is fraudulent. I am initiating action against HMRC for that, so if you have clients in that situation, let me know. The more cases are brought to their attention and the attention of the Public Accounts Committee, the better.
Balances left to rot!
I have had some success by getting staff to trawl through clients statements etc on HMRC looking for balances due.PAYE overpaid is another area wher a CR balance can sit for months.
I am so incensed by the delays in refunding CIS deductions to Limited Companies that my 5 clients want me to issue a County Court Summons .
Any one had any luck with this . Even if HMRC are royally embarrassed I would count it as success !
We get what we pay for
Why does this surprise any of you? Staffing levels are regularly cut in spite of the fact that the work gets more complex. Public sector staff who just do the core job is dealing with customers are marked down because they aren't in workshops, doing LEAN reviews etc. As you sow......
late replies
Dealing with late mother's estate , died in Nov 2013 replies to my letters have gradually increased from 4 months to 6 months!! Replies not really dealing with the matter. As overall position in terms of tax paid strictly incorrect, correct tax has been paid.
They suggest telephoning and give agent's number to contact and then say unable to deal with and write. No point in continuing.
re: the_Poacher
I think we're all on the same page with this, while we're all bemoaning the terrible inefficiencies of HMRC and just how much worse the service has gotten these last few years, I don't think any of us are in the dark as to the reason behind it.
Knowing the problem is that they don't have enough staff or funding doesn't change how irritating or problematic dealing with them on a day to day basis has become. Whether the underlying issue is lack of funding or incompetence the net effect on accountants and taxpayers is the same.
I don't think anyone's suggested the revenue just jolly well pull their socks up, I would imagine the consensus here is that there needs to be a serious rethink regarding the staffing levels and funding at HMRC before we're likely to see any improvement.
The government only has one revenue generating department, I can only imagine it would go a long way towards easing the financial strain on the country if they got it operating the way it ought to.
The one I like the most
(if like it be) is you wait weeks and weeks for a reply. When it comes the jubilation is short-lived as one reads that they have 'lost' the correspondence and could we send it again. This after being told (on inquiry as to the progress) that the address we originally sent the paperwork to was wrong. All well and good but having been originally called back by the HMRC prior to sending the stuff in the first place to be told we had been given the wrong address and the right one was thus and so just adds to the frustration.
So we are still waiting...........
beyond a joke
I've been trying to register a partnership of Ltd companies for 7 weeks. Sent the application (which could ONLY be done through the post) mid-September, and had to spend a total of three hours on hold to various HMRC departments to finally get a call back today telling me they have no record of it (although it was signed for!). They weren't able to tell me that any sooner as they hadn't yet opened the post from the week I sent it!
Now I have to begin all over again, and just hope they don't lose it this time.
HMRC - BAH! HUMBUG!
I had occasion to send a form with a bunch of - in this case - hard to get documents to HMRC and phone with a query, blah, blah and ask what address it should go to. She said the address - I forget which - and that was that. A few mins later the phone rang and it was the same person saying she had given me the wrong address and gave me the right one. All well and good, how efficient. NOT!
On sending the forms the the 'right' address I waited and waited weeks and then phoned to see what the progress was. 'Oh', says the chap, 'you sent it to the wrong address'. WHAT! '...but it will have been forwarded to the right address ... give it a couple of weeks'.
4 weeks later I get a letter saying that they were very sorry but either it never reached them or they have lost it. Breath in try and control rage and utter frustration; call and am told to resend the documents; on asking if it can be expedited as it was registered and lost by them - No, say they, it has to take its turn.
Thank goodness for scanners.
If only...
Thank goodness for scanners.
If only they would accept scanned copies of signed forms life would be a little easier!