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So, doubling the upper limit for unincorporated businesses would extend the cash basis option to another 175,000 companies?
I don't think so.
Cash basis is nonsense, not because its cash but because of the daft rules on expenses that can/can't be claimed.
This is a recipe for disaster and bigger tax bills.....
This is the tail wagging the dog - HMRC want something so everything changes around it including things they have held dear for so long. Ultimately businesses need accounts for many reasons and accounts as we have them meet those wider needs.
Good luck to anyone trying to get a mortgage or will the lenders just accept any old rubbish because it's on an SA302???
If they really want to make it easy for very small business they should roll out a flat rate scheme for tax based on turnover as with VAT. This works elsewhere in the world and might work here.
They will struggle to risk assess for investigation too as a large order on the last day of a quarter will screw up most small business GPP.
Their lax use of the word company (noted by another poster) indicates too they don't understand the huge divide they are creating between business types. Or maybe they will accepted this cash nonsense from companies for corporation tax purposes even though the final accounts will not really reflect what they have submitted.
I'm not filled with confidence (was I ever?)
Most mortgage providers look at 3 years worth of AS302, it will be very hard to use the cash bases to make them all rubbish and not have “the errors” cancel each other out. (While still having money to live on etc.)
Remember it is cashflow not profit that is used to pay someone's morgage.
It says unincorporated businessess not Companies. Although I will give you later on the writer says companies....
I wonder how much HMRC will sell me a list of all 175,000 of the self employed with turnovers 83k-166k? I could incorporate the whole lot save them quarterly digital accounting give them Ltd liability oooohhh and a whole load of other benefits ;) They must have really bad accountants to not have moved them to companies by now. Perhaps they are all LLPs with ltd companies as members...
No mention of how submissions will be made? No mention of whether digital software must be used? No mention of how long a business would have from the date of their deemed quarter end until the submission deadline? No mention of the catch up period? No mention of how quarterly reporting squares with the requirement for companies to file their annual accounts? No mention of whether estimating during a year would be allowed and how any earlier period errors could be corrected.
I could go on but, from my perspective, it is down to us in the majority of cases to be the messenger between HMRC and the small business owner and right now, with perhaps now only 19 and a half months to go, the simple fact is that we, and even software providers, have no idea what is expected.
I have made all clients aware of the new proposals in broad basic terms and not one, of 300, has heralded its arrival.......
I personally feel that we as a practice will best be served by focusing on the clients that engage with us pro-actively rather than those that we constantly have to chase up.
The alternative would be to recruit probably another member of staff solely to be constantly chasing up instructions and that is just not viable and a stress that we could do without. Once a year is tough enough for this category of client.
Overall though, at first glance, I'm very disappointed with this consultation as it is not consulting on the key issue which, quite simply, is logistically and practically how can we all (HMRC and accountants) make this work.
I also question why this is actually needed in the first place?
The other point I would make about cash basis is that, yes, for many it would make it easier to calculate their tax but there is the risk of peaks and troughs from one year to the next in terms of profits and, whether that may then present issues with mortgage applications or the simple ability to properly advise clients on the performance of their business, then I fear that all MTD is really focused on is tax tax tax with no consideration of business issues.
So I will respond to the consultation document but alas I feel that they are simply not asking the right questions at this stage.
To counteract that I actually wrote a long letter of my thoughts to my MP Chris Grayling just over a month ago and received a proper reply within a week advising he had passed it on to senior levels in HMRC and would advise me when he has further news.
Personally I think that is the kind of noise we need to be making here. Let those feelings be truly known to those in power.
Don't just rely on Mr Stokdyk's, albeit intelligent, comments above.
The matters you have mentioned are spelt out in the other five consultation documents that HMRC issued yesterday. Each is between 20 and 40 odd pages. I strongly suggest that we must all carefully read all of the consultation documents and respond, while there is still a remote chance of mitigating the rolling disaster about to happen.
MTD constitutes the biggest change to UK taxation since the introduction of VAT in 1975. It is certainly more revolutionary than the introduction of SA twenty years ago.
The consultation titles are deceptive, "Simplified" means exactly the opposite and "tax administration" sets out a draconian new penalty regime for late filing and late payment.
These are indeed "interesting times" in the traditional Chinese sense.
To update the above I have just seen that there have been other consultation documents issued yesterday on other topics around MTD so I "look forward" to reviewing those.......
The above illustration is misleading. Handwritten records will not be accepted as sufficient under the new regime.
SMOKE AND MIRRORS
Some of us accountants (and the clients) may be thinking that small clients will defect from their accountants and pay a little more tax in the process.
HMRC's golden bonus will be in the raw cash savings generated by a reduction of tax credits (and other benefits) for a lot of these small businesses who will begin to declare larger profits. That tax credit saving rate is far far greater than any tax rate.
So a pat on the back for government giving a feel good factor with small businesses becoming more profitable. And a nice windfall of more tax and not only that lots and lots of advanced booty (voluntary payments, advanced CGT, etc, etc) on the horizon to add to the pot of advance payments they achieved on introducing SA POA's. Hmm...just need to see where that nice big SA pot has gone.
Government / HMRC playing with the fools yet again and laughing all the way to the bank I should think!!
Is it possible to explain to HMRC that accounting requirements are not only related to taxation? There are substantial requirements under the Company Acts, under trading when insolvent rules, under requirements for non-payment of bribes and so many other acts and judicial decisions. Perhaps, perhaps cash accounting will satisfy the Taxation authorities, but it does not satisfy these other legal requirements. Does this mean the production of separate accounts to satisfy each of these laws? It is not only to satisfy the Inland Revenue that accounts are needed.
What this will cause is those of us who "do things properly" being put under incredible time pressure and then potentially forced to take short cuts.
Call me old fashioned but we still prepare balance sheets for our self employed small business clients - HMRC seem to think that will go out the window.
It will just be a 30 day sprint once a quarter to calculate a 3 month profit and then, in theory, tidy up later in the year with the annual submission.
Or do we let the clients loose on their quarterly updates and then tidy up the mess..... Will clients really be able to balance bank/credit cards/debtors/creditors/payroll/cis themselves with an app?
"Take a picture of the receipt". Yes indeed every receipt they can find will be going in there.......
They say if it ain't broke don't fix it - well I fear it's about to get broke..........
Fee increases for "proper" business clients coupled with resigning from clients who are going to cause stress seems a sensible plan to me right now.
That's how we will have more time to do the more productive work we crave to do.
The whole take a picture on your phone is a reality - but it's not (afaik) an integrated part of any existing accounts software. The service I use (Receipt Bank) costs extra and will save time if used correctly and trained correctly. It is not particularly cheap - (but is OK compared to paying someone to do the same thing) and there are different offerings out there that of varying quality.
Free software - so where does my income stream of selling clients QB Online subscriptions fit into that. They're not going to pay me if some spotty youth writes SuperduperfreeaccountswithinbuiltOCRandtaxknowledge.com. Are they allowed to distort the market in this way?
The software they say they want is just not available nor is it likely to be and certainly not for free. Of course I can't find the question in the consultation that says are we living in cloud cuckoo land?
Timescales - one month for quarterly filing and then up to 9 months for the year end additional filing. Agreed that might spread it through the year except that most self employed people have taken the advice of their accountants to avoid overlap profits and have 31st March - so add 9 months .... yes 31st December. I assume they will be manning the phones Christmas Day and that their systems won't crash on New Year's Eve?
And then why all the full about digital - it boils down to a quarterly submission of a TB by the looks of it - no transactional information they say. So why cant we do it on paper and upload it like we do with the VAT now?
And what is the aim? Well the stated aim is so that Mr Client knows what his tax bill will be. I can tell him that!
M