You might also be interested in
Replies (31)
Please login or register to join the discussion.
10 exclusions fixed, and 14 introduced in the process.
You couldn't make it up, could you?
[***]....you couldn't make this up...well that's not entirely true...it was completely predictable given the shambles of everything else the Revenue ticker with.
The revenue want us to play ball yet if it all goes wrong we will have to complete yet more forms to submit with the Return, and possibly appeal if they then lose those extra pieces of paper.
If you want favours do something in return.
That said. in this particular case the simple solution would surely be to extend the paper return deadline to 31/1/18...the reality is no agent wants to submit by paper so they will not if the 'bugs' are fixed at the point of submission...
Extend the paper deadline? That is too a simple fix. Lets keep it complicated and unworkable please.
Exactly. Lets introduce a change right up against the paper deadline, and not worry about agents working on returns, possibly having sent paper ones for approval which, by the time they're signed and returned, might be able to be filed online. At which point we have to change process for fear of getting a penalty for something acceptable when sent out but unacceptable by the time it comes back.
Favour for favour? Cooperation?
I am old enough to remember the "good old days".
Currently waiting for P45 information to be posted to Australia. Direct feed of information - not working. Giving the information over the phone - as if!
Excluded cases, with suitable annotation, by paper have - after a few months wait - been returned with exactly the same calculation they would have undergone on-line - i.e. wrong.
I wonder if HMRC will automatically override these cases following a post-October 23rd on-line submission?
In case any are not aware the Australians too are having problems with the Tax Autorities computer systems and probally software.
Now is probally the time for another UK enquiry because as others have said MTD for VAT is due in 4 months and I expect more problems as this approaches.
"Now is probally the time for another UK enquiry because as others have said MTD for VAT is due in 4 months and I expect more problems as this approaches."
I think you mean 18 months (April 2019).
This is not going to help the development of MTD compliant software either -
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/news/towards-new-and-definitive-vat-syst...
Anyway, I think the best way to approach this mess is to ignore it and spend more time down the pub.
The UK Border Agency at Bristol Airport were also experiencing IT issues yesterday with many red lights flagging their passport reading machines were not working. Huge queues resulted.
I'd actually focus in on the people dreaming up our incredibly complicated tax system rather than wholly blame HMRC who struggle to keep up.
I'd actually focus in on the people dreaming up our incredibly complicated tax system rather than wholly blame HMRC who struggle to keep up.
Much of the complication in the current tax code is there by regulations devolved to HMRC (to avoid parliamentary scrutiny, probably), so do we get to blame them twice?
Who thinks HMRC will be paying us for all this additional hassle and expense? Don't expect our clients will. What are the accounting bodies doing to protect our interests in all of this? Do I see the tumbleweed come rolling past...MTD just aound the corner too! Yes, you couldn't make it up!
I almost feel sorry for HMRC! And I certainly do for their front line officers.
I note that the SA302 and letter will be sent to the taxpayer - but not to the agent??
This would suggest that HMRC will write to clients saying that they have corrected the computation that their agent submitted but presumably not pointing out that this is HMRC's mistake in the first place.
This would suggest that HMRC will write to clients saying that they have corrected the computation that their agent submitted but presumably not pointing out that this is HMRC's mistake in the first place.
If the agent submitted the tax return with an incorrect tax computation then why is it HMRCs mistake? Yes, HMRC were not computing the tax correctly but if the return was accepted then so were you. Sorry, I don't see why HMRC inability to calculate tax can excuse an agent's culpability for submitting an incorrect assessment.
I may have misunderstood what I read but I took it that HMTC were amending correct paper returns to bring them into line with their system i.e. wrong.
No excuse for submitting incorrect tax returns.
I may have misunderstood what I read but I took it that HMTC were amending correct paper returns to bring them into line with their system i.e. wrong.
No excuse for submitting incorrect tax returns.
I may have misunderstood what I read but I took it that HMTC were amending correct paper returns to bring them into line with their system i.e. wrong.
No excuse for submitting incorrect tax returns.
McGregorian, HMRC are manually overriding their incorrect digital system to get it to agree with the paper returns. Or at least that is what they are supposed to be doing but HMRC have yet to process any of my paper returns. I've just checked: HMRC acknowledge receipt of my first one on 07/07/17 but have still to capture it, 3 months later. I have spoken to the ADL. They said it is taking the full 3 months and have sent a referral off for my case. The referral will be processed by 30/10/17 which means my client's return could take almost 4 months to capture. This is an exclusion case 61 which is not being fixed in 2 weeks so other cases will have to be sent on paper. If HMRC can't cope with the slow flow of returns over the summer how are they going to cope during the peak period? This is not acceptable.
HMRC are manually overriding their incorrect digital system to get it to agree with the paper returns.
To agree with what in the paper return, Kevin?
Our software PTP calculates the correct tax. Iris supplied us with a spreadsheet tool which shows the correct tax and the HMRC incorrect tax. I check that PTP has calculated the correct tax and has the correct figures on TC1 and TC2. HMRC then adjust their calculation to agree with mine. Or that's the theory: HMRC haven't actually processed the paper return I sent at the start of July. I assume HMRC have their own calculator/tool which they can use to check my figures. Has anyone had an exclusion case paper return processed by HMRC yet?
As mentioned earlier up the thread, we have HMRC responses to Paper SA100s. As I said:
"Excluded cases, with suitable annotation, by paper have - after a few months wait - been returned with exactly the same calculation they would have undergone on-line - i.e. wrong."
That seems to conflict directly with your "HMRC are manually overriding their incorrect digital system to get it to agree with the paper returns", but there's another point. The SA100 is, basically, a data document. Our software also gave us the correct analysis - but none of that makes it onto the SA100 - just the raw data.
So how would HMRC know how to "manually overrid[e] their incorrect digital system to get it to agree with the paper returns." when there is nothing in an SA100 for them to fit their processes to?
My understanding from HMRC was that paper SA100s., annotated as "submitted due to exclusion ##" would be manually processed - thereby getting around the acknowledged faults in the HMRC software. I was even told how expensive this manual processing would be. From our experience, that is just not happening.
Although I do have some indications of manual activity in that one item of SA100 data was mis-transcribed !
they don't help themselves though...having to fall in line with tax legislation they have no control over is one thing....taking a somewhat obnoxious stance regarding the provision of SA302/P60 information etc where they can decide their approach is another.
Personally my advise to all agents is where an 'exclusion error' has occurred send it in on paper. There are no benefits to holding on to it. Of course if hmrc wish to offer some incentive by all means....
Rebecca, is v5 list published? I can only find v4 online. Could you post the link please.
So HMRC is urging tax agents to hold off filing returns until the 23 October 'fix' - assuming the 'fix' works and that no further Revenue [***] ups occur as a result of the 'fix'.
Coupled with the oxymoronic terminology 'working with tax agents blog' , this is sadly like red rag to a bull as far as I'm concerned . Let's see how many more returns I can file by 23 October.
arrange the following words into well know phrase or saying
"brewery arrange up a [***] in a"
Where does it say that HMRC is going to pick up our extra costs on this farce?
In the same place where HMRC say they will strive to give excellent service whereas in reality they think it is acceptable for them to take more than 3 months to process the paper returns.Where does it say that HMRC is going to pick up our extra costs on this farce?
October 27th....just came across a tax return in my pending tray that I had been holding off filing until the bugs were fixed.
Opened up personal tax and did a "test in live" submission to see if it would go. Same error back regarding exclusion #51.
So I'm assuming they haven't fixed it yet? Anyone else still unable to submit?