On 4 May HMRC started to contact taxpayers who it believes are entitled to claim an SEISS grant, telling them to be ready to claim when the portal opens next week.
HMRC has also appealed to tax agents to help their clients prepare, but tax agents won’t be able to access the SEISS portal to make grant claims on behalf of their clients.
Genuine or scam?
The initial contact to self-employed taxpayers is being made by email. Or, if the taxpayer has no email, HMRC will text message where it has a mobile phone number. Only where HMRC does not hold an email address or mobile phone number for the taxpayer will it send a physical letter, but this letter may not arrive until next week.
There are already numerous scam texts circulating purporting to be from HMRC, such as the one reported by AccountingWEB reader codling in which their client was asked to reply with their UTR number. As codling noted this information could be used by the scammer to make a fraudulent claim.
The genuine emails and texts from HMRC do not include an active link to click on; they only tell the taxpayer to be ready to claim.
Not necessarily eligible
The fact that the taxpayer has received this initial contact about the SEISS grant from HMRC doesn’t mean that they will meet all the criteria to receive the grant. HMRC will have the information about the trader’s profits for the years to 2018/19, but to claim the SEISS the taxpayer must also have traded in 2019/20 and be intending to trade in 2020/21. This information about current and future trading intentions will not yet be available to HMRC.
The other conditions for the SEISS grant are discussed in Coronavirus self-employed scheme: Get the details right.
HMRC is encouraging taxpayers to use its SEISS eligibility checker tool to check whether they can claim. However, this online tool only asks for the taxpayer’s UTR and NI numbers, it doesn’t ask about current or future trading intentions. Tax agents can use this checker on behalf of clients, and ask HMRC to review the case if they think a client has been incorrectly rejected as ineligible to apply.
The taxpayer is not required to use the checker tool in order to make a SEISS claim. However, if they do use it and provide an email address as requested for further correspondence, this may speed up the process of the claim. HMRC will use that email address to tell the taxpayer exactly when the SEISS portal will be open for them. This will be a specific date between 13 and 18 May, with different days allocated to different taxpayers.
Locked out
The ICAEW said its members will be very disappointed that there is to be no agent access to the SEISS portal. The professional accountancy bodies have pressed HMRC for agents to be included in the process. But as Glyn Fullelove, president of the CIOT, confirmed, there was a balance of priorities between the speed of implementation and the extra functionality required to add agent access.
Tony Margaritelli, chair of the ICPA, said the exclusion of tax agents from the SEISS portal went down like a lead balloon with his members. He added, “Accountants are appointed by clients to look after their affairs and are trusted to do exactly that but yet at the time of their most pressing need HMRC is denying us the ability to do just that.”
The difference between the SEISS and the CJRS for furloughed employees is that the employer must provide the calculations of pay for the furlough employees, and hence accountants and payroll professionals have to be involved. The SEISS does not require the taxpayer to make any calculations, so perhaps this swung the pendulum towards speed and against agent access.
Elaine Clark, founder of CheapAccounting.co.uk, praised HMRC, saying it has delivered the system ahead of schedule, which allows time for taxpayers to set up a government gateway account if needed.
Clark also pointed out that the declarations required as part of the SEISS application, of intention to trade and whether the trade has been adversely affected by the coronavirus, can only be made the individual taxpayer.
HMRC has advised that agents should not use their clients’ credentials to apply for grants on behalf of clients and that doing so may trigger HMRC fraud checks and delay payment of the grant.
There will be a telephone-based SEISS grant application service for the digitally excluded to use, but HMRC has not released any details of that yet.
Replies (72)
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Good! The claims for JRS have taken up much of our time recently. I cannot see how we would cope without a couple of hundred SEISS claims too.
Thankfully this passes the responsibility onto the client to tick that box to say the claim is correct. I'm not sorry that we won't be doing that for some clients.
But you will still have to answer endless questions like , what is my UTR, why don't I qualify for the grant, is £x grant correct etc etc all for no reward. At least if agents did the claim we could charge a nominal sum to reflect our time input
Yes agreed, although I'm more concerned about giving a good service at the moment than lining my pockets and I feel I am letting clients down through no fault of my own by not being able to take this stress away from them.
Also we would have a record of what the client was likely to receive ready for when we do the 2020/21 SATRS!
All good except for this little nugget in the guidance
"Your tax agent or adviser cannot make the claim for you. You must make the claim yourself. If you use an agent you should contact them if you need any help or support "
I would rather make the claim, send them a declaration to sign etc. first and have a tangible task to bill, rather than the constant disruption of phone calls asking for help!
Completely agree. I understand agents are allowed to help in appeals though.
Just feels like a game that HMRC are playing, let them do JRS but lock them out of SEISS, clients puzzled by the inconsistency.
I also can't help thinking this is a disingenuous attempt to force taxpayers to set up on line accounts something hmrc have been after for years and exclude agents in the process, something they also always wanted to do
Agreed. As for HMRC saying that agents should not use their client credentials - wind your neck in. I have already had clients ask me to set up GG accounts and to make the claim for them. I am not going to refuse to do so.
Hi Silverghost, if HMRC are using any form of IP address checker, then making multiple registrations from the same IP address may cause you problems.
What happens if I use Bitdefender's VPN?
Clients mother phoned. Both of them are dyslexic. Talked her through the process and we got to the password. ‘I’m useless at these, can’t do them’. So I gave her a password to use. Right or wrong? No time to care at present. HMRC seem to forget that agents are appointed with good reason.
As we know SEISS is open to abuse. As an example I switched from SE to Ltd last year and had some cross over on my 18/19 SATR. According to the checker I'm eligible. I know I'm not since I never continued to trade as SE in 19/20. But someone else may decide to claim anyway.
Yes but when they ask you if you are trading in 20/21 and you say no, your claim will fail. Only if you fraudulently answer yes would your claim go through.
Does it actually ask those questions that are effectively the criteria for being eligible though? I haven't seen as far as the questioning phase as I am not eligible as I run a ltd co.
Am I trading in 20/21 yes. Am I trading as self employed, no.
I guess it comes down to the wording really.
The SEISS application system is proving to be a lively topic in our weekly Q&A webinar here:
https://www.crowdcast.io/e/AWEBLiveCoronavirusQ&A/6
It's live now as I'm typing (about 30mins in), but you can watch procedings afterwards by registering for the same link.
Meanwhile, Rebecca Benneyworth just said it would have taken another two months to build in an agent access mechanism that HMRC could fraud-proof. In the end the design and development team decided to go ahead this way to get the money out as fast as possible.
HMRC apologised to its Administrative Burdens Advisory Board and said there was no other way they could do it to help companies before June, she said.
Yet they were able to quickly add an agent access mechanism in the JRS scheme without any issue....
Agreed! I'm sorry but that's a red herring in my opinion!
Shoot me somebody - please!
Me too whilst you're at it!! ;-)
Ho Ho!
I can only do so from 2 metres away, not sure I am that good a shot
I will settle for that!
I have contacted all my self-employed clients and given them the eligibility link and suggested to them that they check that they still have their Gateway ID and password and if they don't then to get one set up sooner rather than later so that they can make the claim on 15th.
We have done the same - underlining in red
that we can't do the claim for them. But the HMRC have said there will be an alternative way to claim if they don't have a GG account. Some of them are banking on this!
They have made the application process easier if they follow the link - all that is needed is a passport or driving licence to confirm identity - the is no wait for an activation code
Yes, except that I had a client yesterday who doesn't have a photo-card driving licence, doesn't have an up-to-date passport nor a credit card account so she fell at the first hurdle!
Hi Carol, Is it really possible with Driving licence, most will not have P60, payslip, or British passport, so driving licence would be handy, but some months ago driving licence was not an approved way to identify for GGateway account?
Hi Carol, Is it really possible with Driving licence, most will not have P60, payslip, or British passport, so driving licence would be handy, but some months ago driving licence was not an approved way to identify for GGateway account?
ICAEW have advised not to set up a Gateway account until you are ready to make the claim as it will make it easier
https://www.icaew.com/insights/tax-news/2020/may-2020/lack-of-agent-acce...
Yesterday, ICAEW advised against creating GG accounts in advance;
....."The Tax Faculty advises against individuals setting up a new government gateway ID in advance of making an application, but instead doing so as the first step in the application process. This will ensure that the correct type of credentials are set up and avoids the need to wait for an authorisation code in the post (that this requirement is suspended for those that set up government gateway credentials as part of the SEISS service)."...
Has this advice now been retracted?
The first one I asked sent me her UTR
I have already had clients sending me photos of their pc screen with the url cut off of the picture showing a question they need to answer which is totally out of context, asking me what they need to do? With no background as to how they were contacted, what part of the gov.uk website they are on, or even if it is the real gov.uk website. This is not going to be fun....
Well yes, there are going to be plenty of fraudsters cashing in on this - maybe HMRC don't care about that side of fraud against the poor taxpayers then?!!
We almost need another thread showing any fraudulent websites or text messages we come across so everyone is kept informed - but if we had agent access we wouldn't need this would we?!!!
The talk of taxpayers themselves having to confirm the claim hence them being the ones to sign in doesn't really ring true. Most agents submit the various clients returns from their bespoke software on the basis that they hold an approval from the client. How is this any more or less an authority and responsibility than making a claim under the SEISS?
And as for the talk about development time to achieve functionality, you could file this under the same category as other government processes at this time where raising valid questions is treated like treason. 100k tests anyone? *cough cough*
Agreed! I personally don't 'buy' it - HMRC have had it in for us for years despite us virtually running the tax system for them!
I have had some clients asking which Government Gateway I.D. should I have or apply for, Self Assessment for Self Employed, Personal Tax Account or any of the others, such as VAT, PAYE etc.
Any thoughts anyone?
see here from ICAEW - they are advising it will create the correct account at the time of application
https://www.icaew.com/insights/tax-news/2020/may-2020/lack-of-agent-acce...
There are three types:
Individual (the first on the list) is the one covering Self Assessment etc
..."which allows time for taxpayers to set up a government gateway account if needed."...
Yesterday, ICAEW advised against creating GG accounts in advance;
....."The Tax Faculty advises against individuals setting up a new government gateway ID in advance of making an application, but instead doing so as the first step in the application process. This will ensure that the correct type of credentials are set up and avoids the need to wait for an authorisation code in the post (that this requirement is suspended for those that set up government gateway credentials as part of the SEISS service)."...
Has this advice now been retracted?
This would be easier but don't want to tell all clients to wait and then find out they need the code.
Are the tax faculty right?
I only wish I knew!...I have already sent out two group emails...the first advising to create a GG, the second advising not to (as per ICAEW guidance)...and apologising for any confusion...please God I don't need to send a third!!
This is ridiculous! Opening up taxpayers to all scammers out there.
This is insane. The majority of sole trader clients don't even know what a Tax Account is. They are not going to be able to do this for themselves.
Agreed and to be quite honest, why should they if they are represented?!!!
This is a good system with a big irritation that I can't do it for my clients. I get the fraud issue, it would be easy for unscrupulous agents to claim on behalf of clients and divert the money to their own accounts, but the tiny number of those kind of gobshites shouldn't mess it up for the rest of us.
One of my SE clients is a scaffolder, he can barely do anything that requires thought. His wife is doing his claim for him and has already asked me 4 questions......
This is all a bit crazy. Some of my clients can't even operate a computer let alone set up a gateway account. We are going to be inundated with phone calls which is going to take up a lot more time than it would have taken to do their claim in the first place
Even my most un-techy clients are emailing to say it's really straight forward.
I think we should see how it goes first, seems to me that HMRC have been doing a great job so far, and I had massive doubts after their MTD disaster.
Interesting how many clients who did not have access to computers when MTD was proposed, but now seem to have immediate access to complete their SEISS claim!
Like many others, I think this is a very clever way to get most self employed taxpayers to set up a Government Gateway and provide email address and mobile phone number!
Agreed although I could find an alternative word for 'clever'!!!
Does all this extra cost of helping our clients through coronavirus count as 'negatively affected'for the Bounce Back Loan LOL?
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