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CSV format - part 2
OK, so Peter, "you can use it as long as the fields are the same as that required for the bookkeeping software". I am still puzzled. Clients might use other sources of payments for their bills that do not appear in the bank statements. What is the accountant supposed to do with a client who assumes that a downloaded comma separated variable (="csv") file was all that would be necessary. We should still have to remind clients that we do not possess crystal balls, and that good book-keeping is the foundation stone of preparing Financial Accounts. Over to you as to how you get the secondary (and further) sources of payments from clients to input into such promoted "wizard" software.
Why are you puzzled?
OK, so Peter, "you can use it as long as the fields are the same as that required for the bookkeeping software". I am still puzzled. Clients might use other sources of payments for their bills that do not appear in the bank statements. What is the accountant supposed to do with a client who assumes that a downloaded comma separated variable (="csv") file was all that would be necessary. We should still have to remind clients that we do not possess crystal balls, and that good book-keeping is the foundation stone of preparing Financial Accounts. Over to you as to how you get the secondary (and further) sources of payments from clients to input into such promoted "wizard" software.
IF you can get CSV files of data then that can be used to import into the bookkeeping software.
IF you can't get CSV files then CSV files can be created from the original information or the data can be entered into the bookkeeping software like it has been done for many years.
Obviously if the client is under a misaprehension the accountant has to explain. This is what accountants have always had to do and it's nothing new.
Who is saying anything about "wizard software"? As far as I can tell you are the only person to call it that.
Wizard bookkeeping
Martin, just to expand on Peter's comments, at their heart, the modern Cloud based bookkeeping systems are very similar to the deskbound cumputerised systems we've been used to since the early 80s they have bank, cash, credit card accounts, sales, purchase and nominal ledgers, TB, P&L, Balance Sheet and countless other reports.
Where they become wizard, is in being better designed for non-accountants, being available to anyone with an internet connection (even on their phone), 24 hours a day and in being able to link (integrate) with other facilities, also residing on the Web.
For example, the use of a CSV spreadsheet of your bank (or credit card) transactions to update the books is not new, you've been able to do this for years with Sage & Quickbooks desk systems, but what is new is the ability to cut out the CSV spreadsheet altogether and get your bookkeeping to link directly, or via a 3rd party, with your bank account meaning that the bank entries appear in your books either automatically, without any action on your part, or by pressing a couple of buttons and entering your bank login and security codes.
Even with a lot more automation than is available on the older systems one of the most time consuming parts of any bookkeeping is the entry of supplier bills or expenses but now all I do is send all mine to a web based facility for them to create a bill entry for me that I can then import into my books, along with a PDF or JPG scan of the bill meaning I can throw away the paperwork.
Previously I'd enter say half of my bills manually and enter the other half as bank payments, whereas now all my bills and receipts (including train tickets or Cafe Nero receipts, that I photo and send from my phone) end up the same day being imported into my books en mass in seconds, to be paid off from bank, cash, credit card or director's loan account
There are many more examples of such integrations susch as EPOS systems for shops, Stock Control systems and credit/debit card and direct debit payment systems.
So, when thinking about my own tailored "Accounts Book" or spreadsheet I used to give to my clients, those same clients can now raise their invoices and email them to their customers, from the books and can promt/chase them for payment and, if applicable, can prepare and send directly to HMRC, from the bookkeeping, their VAT returns, payroll RTI and CIS returns as well as handle their bank reconciliations and expense entries above.
Probably more importantly though, rather than having to ask the client to bring/send me their books every 3 to 6 months, or even waiting till the year end, I can now look at their books at any time and from wherever I am to check them out or correct them meaning that when the year end comes their annual accounts are sometimes only 30 minutes work away, compared to hours or days.
Finally, in anticipation of your question, these are not big businesses, they are sole traders and husband/wife Ltd companies, the sort of people who just managed to keep one of my books or spreadsheets but who would have been lost with Sage/Quickbooks.
Compared to what I did 5 years ago, I think wizard sums it up.
Magic
"Compared to what I did 5 years ago, I think wizard sums it up."
Sounds like magic to me.
I see that the petition titled Scrap plans forcing self employed and small business to do 4 tax returns yearly is to be debated in parliament on Monday 25th and can be watched live at Parliament live.tv.
You can submit your views via Twitter using #HoCpetitions until 10am on Thursday 21st January. A summary of the tweets will be provided for MPs ahead of the debate.
I know that the poor wording of the petition has already allowed the Government to effectively sidestep the issue with their official response and the cynic in me thinks that they will go ahead regardless of public opinion but surely if you feel so strongly about this issue as I and thousands of others do, then there is no point just bleating on if you are not prepared to do anything about it. With this in mind, tweet away.
One other thing, (and this depends on just exactly what is required when all of this comes to fruition, and forgive me if this has already been said) If quarterly submissions are to be implemented as of April 2018, we would need to prepare annual accounts and tax returns for all clients for the tax year ending 5th April 2018 and then also deal with the new quarterly submissions for the 2018/19 tax year effectively doing 2 years work in one year give or take, all while coping with all of the logistics of the transition.
Possibilities
One other thing, (and this depends on just exactly what is required when all of this comes to fruition, and forgive me if this has already been said) If quarterly submissions are to be implemented as of April 2018, we would need to prepare annual accounts and tax returns for all clients for the tax year ending 5th April 2018 and then also deal with the new quarterly submissions for the 2018/19 tax year effectively doing 2 years work in one year give or take, all while coping with all of the logistics of the transition.
If you are allowed one month to complete the quarterly submissions then the two sets of accounts (one a year and one of three months = 15 months accounts) would need to be done in four months. Maybe HMRC would only want P&L a/c's for three monthly submissions so in theory you may not need to know the previous years accounts before doing the three monthly submissions.
I think I'll find a new job.
I already have enough problems getting paperwork and information from my clients. I do not wish to submit tax returns I prefer to leave that to an accountant, so how will that work four time a year ?? and will I be able to go on holiday, ever ?? I'm a sole trader/book-keeper so there is no-one to cover me whilst I'm away, so with all these extra deadlines I doubt it.
Rant over, now time to re-think my future :-(
Or to increase my fee's 10 fold :-)
I think I'll find a new job.
I already have enough problems getting paperwork and information from my clients. I do not wish to submit tax returns I prefer to leave that to an accountant, so how will that work four time a year ?? and will I be able to go on holiday, ever ?? I'm a sole trader/book-keeper so there is no-one to cover me whilst I'm away, so with all these extra deadlines I doubt it.
Rant over, now time to re-think my future :-(
Or to increase my fee's 10 fold :-)
My approach to this will be MTU - Making Tax Up. In April i will come up with my forecast for the year for each affected client and share it with them. Then each quarter, simply bang that in. Being careful, of course, not to file for September in July as that would be rubbing HMRC noses in it.
I think I'll find a new job.
I already have enough problems getting paperwork and information from my clients. I do not wish to submit tax returns I prefer to leave that to an accountant, so how will that work four time a year ?? and will I be able to go on holiday, ever ?? I'm a sole trader/book-keeper so there is no-one to cover me whilst I'm away, so with all these extra deadlines I doubt it.
Rant over, now time to re-think my future :-(
Or to increase my fee's 10 fold :-)
This could have been posted today
HMRC were then not coping
Nothing changes other than now to blame Covid
Death of the tax return?
Complete cobblers
Rebecca had already joined the dark side. Opposed to mandation? Now it is get a job at Tescos if you oppose HMRC and MTD
Agree.
See my similar post right at the beginning (well 2nd post actually).
Like the two pieces of bread around an unedifying spread!
Noteworthy that numerous posts missing but replies intact
Missing:
Jason Crook
John Hemming
Tax dragon
All well known for offensive behavior, not.
And that person check is just at top of page one
Demonstrates Aweb opinion of of dissenters even that far back.
I have been banned once and moderated several times
Tax Dragon banned with a lower sentance recently
You MUST be in line for a ban soon
I am with Justin, wear your ban with pride.
Yeah, I did notice that ... makes the thread as a whole virtually unreadable.
And yes, I'm expecting the executioner's knife anytime ... although so far I've 'escaped' with several warnings (notified via the My Account section that I don't otherwise visit) - all for the most outrageous 'reasons' (about which I respond as a complaint but never receive a response).
Just hope your next ban isn't a result of re-naming the saintly Jason as Jason Crook!
Whoops
Intime to correct, but spoils the flow
I accept I can be a bit direct as I am an Aspie. Recognised late in life when son went through the system.
Wear that also with pride, as it makes me what I am
But yet to see any of your postings being worthy of any Aweb comment
With exception of being against the Aweb adulation of of MTD; paid for by sponsors. For that alone the Gulag awaits your presence
I hate to say I would not tolerate a ban, Aweb get my content /input for nothing so if I do ever get banned I will walk, never to return.
One plus would be I would get through a lot more work were I to be banned.
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