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VAT online – how to register

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28th Sep 2009
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A step by step guide to completing the process ready to file your own VAT returns online, with guidance for agents acting in this area.

From April 2010 VAT returns must be filed online and the liability must be paid electronically for all businesses with turnover (excluding VAT) in excess of £100,000 per annum. Businesses which register for VAT with an effective date of 1 April 2010 or later will be required to make their returns and pay online irrespective of size.

Agents will need to start reminding their clients now about this and encouraging them to prepare for the change. Registering to file online is simple if the business has the necessary information, but there may be a delay if the original VAT registration certificate cannot be located.

To register to file VAT returns online on your own behalf (rather than as agent on behalf of a client) you will first need to be registered with the Government Gateway. Choosing VAT Online from the HMRC homepage will allow access to the registration system and the Gateway registration can also be completed here.

For most businesses, this means registering as an 'organisation' which will cover both companies and partnerships. For VAT purposes, sole traders can register as an individual or as an organisation. The registration process now leads to a page showing the Government Gateway ID, which is subsequently confirmed by post with the arrival of the blue gateway log-in card.

In the meantime you can print this page, which now includes a facsimile of the registration card. It is a good idea to print this at this point if you want to go on and register for VAT online at the same time. There is also a change from the old process in that user passwords are now selected rather than generated by the system, making them easier to manage because the applicant can select an appropriate password which is easy to remember.

The applicant can now register for VAT online. The identity check uses the date of first registration for VAT, so this is where the registration certificate comes in. If the applicant cannot locate the certificate a duplicate can be requested from the HMRC VAT National Advice centre – this is sent to the registered address for VAT. You will also need information from the last VAT return you submitted (unless this is a new registration).

Once this is set up it is possible to file a VAT return online immediately, but if you would like your VAT collected by direct debit arrangement you will need to wait for the activation code and be aware that it takes a few days for the direct debit authority to go live. So it is likely that those with returns for 31 August 2009, due 30 September 2010 are leaving a bit late now to file and pay by direct debit in time for the deadline.

In doing this over the weekend for a new business of mine I found one aspect very confusing. I was trying to register to pay by direct debit, and having done this before I couldn’t remember the exact sequence of events. There seemed to be a direct debit application, but as I progressed through the system I was asked to enter an amount for the payment, so I realised that I was not in the right area.

After going back and forth a lot, I established that there are two different registrations for direct debit, and I needed to access the VAT Online direct debit rather than the normal direct debit process. This is accessed through the VAT returns section, but I had to wait for my activation PIN to be able to set it up last time. I do feel that the guidance on this could be a little clearer.

As far as registering as an agent for clients is concerned there are a couple of glitches which are currently being resolved by HMRC. The first is that if as a practice you are not VAT registered you will not be able to register as an agent for VAT purposes at present. HMRC is expecting to have this resolved in time for the April change, and current indications are that this may be ready in late November, so you should listen for announcements.

For agents who are currently VAT registered the process by which your client authorises you to complete their VAT returns as agent is convoluted. The client must authorise you on the Gateway to act as agent for returns, which means that the client will have to register with the Gateway first. From late November, the online authorisation process currently in use for other tax areas will be extended to allow registration as an agent for VAT returns to be done online. Registering as an agent with the online service for a client will trigger an authorisation code to be sent to the client, which must be supplied to the agent to activate the service, as for other tax areas.

One final point with regard to electronic payment. It is not essential for the client to register to pay by direct debit, but this is by far the most simple way to pay as it is not necessary to initiate the payment once the return has been filed. Registering for direct debit payment also provides an additional three working days before payment is taken, so there is a slight cash flow advantage. The HMRC bank changes will not affect those registered for direct debit payment, but all others paying electronically should ensure that they are using the correct HMRC bank details, as the VAT payment details changed in July 2009.
 

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Replies (19)

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By User deleted
28th Sep 2009 10:30

DD and gov gateway

Not sure Rebecca made it clear - you don't need the activation code to set up a DD for VAT. The activation code/PIN that gets sent out is to activate a secondary service called "Update VAT reg details" e.g. where you can update your business address online rather than sending HMRC a letter. If the link to set up a DD for VAT is not showing when you first register, it is usually because the first VAT return is over a month away. The link to set up the DD automatically appears when the option to file the first VAT return appears.

Also - the bit about the client having to register on the gateway - this is not really a problem as they will have had to obtain a user ID and password in the set up anyway in order to register for eVAT, so they just use the same user ID and password on the gov gateway as they do on the HMRC website. There's no need for a separate account.

I think the way a client's eVAT account currently gets allocated to an agent account is much better than the PAYE and CT methods of a PIN in the post so I hope Rebecca is not saying HMRC are chaninging this! If a client gives you their log in it can be done in seconds and a VAT return filed as agent immediately rather than if you wanted to view a PAYE/CT account - having to wait for the PIN to be sent to the client through the post and then having to wait a day or two for the client to appear on the agent list once the PIN has been entered...

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Nichola Ross Martin
By Nichola Ross Martin
28th Sep 2009 12:01

Tax geek: quick guide to VAT online

After tying myself in knots, I created this quick guide which summarises the steps:

http://www.rossmartin.co.uk/index.php/tax-guides/114-how-to-register-for-vat-online-taxpayers

See the link at bottom of the article for the guide for agents.

 

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Rebecca Benneyworth profile image
By Rebecca Benneyworth
28th Sep 2009 12:48

Thanks for your input "anon"

I did wonder why my link to set up direct debits was not on there - it is a new registration, but my next (indeed my first!) VAT quarter ends 30 September so I think it should be there. However, I'll check in a couple of days and report back. I seemed to remember having to wait for something when I registered my main business but clearly it wasn't for this.

Regarding the authorisation step by clients - I don't think the current method, which as you say is very quick, will be withdrawn when the new facility goes live, but it will just provide an alternative - but yes, this will be slower, with a PIN sent to the client.

I din't mean to imply a new Gateway ID was needed - I was trying to write this for a business which is completely new to all things online.

And finally, one tiny moan, but it irritated me. Having got email addresses set up for the new business I find that the address I have chosen is too long to fit into HMRC's email contact line, so it is showing [email protected]

I've lost the "o.uk" bit. So after getting it all nicely set up I have had to revert to another email address - however I do accept that there has to be a limit, and my surname is a bit long.....

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By User deleted
28th Sep 2009 18:03

VAT Online

What happens to Businesses especially Sole Traders who are not Computer literate.

I have many a client over this threshold who don't know how to switch on a Computer never mind file VAT returns Online, and as for Banking Online get real do you trust Banks?(I worked for one for 30 years.).

Again everybody is being railroaded into something never agreed to by the PEOPLE (democracy) It is maybe time every business in the country closed its doors & let the state provide all the jobs with cushy pensions & allowances.

 

 

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By gavinfernandes
30th Sep 2009 12:20

Great guide Nichola

Hi Nichola,

Thank you for that tax geek link! that is a great little tool you have there and was really easy to use. I have just registered myself for the online VAT registration now and was nice and simple - so thank you very much!  By the way, that site of yours looks pretty good, is it a new website that you are working on?

-- Gavin Fernandes ACA, CTA - www.mggrouplondon.co.uk

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Rebecca Benneyworth profile image
By Rebecca Benneyworth
30th Sep 2009 13:56

Clarification from HMRC

We have had some very welcome clarification from HMRC on a couple of points.

First, "anon" was absolutely right, one does not need the activation PIN to register for direct debit payment - this is only for maintenance such as changing the registered address etc. The registration for Direct Debit will be clearer from NOvember and the system will lead the user to the right screen, but again a few days are needed to get this live before payment can be made.

Secondly, HMRC has confirmed that from November clients will not need to be on the internet or registered with the gateway as the registration will be agent led by the use of the PIN issued to the client's registered address, so your clients who are computer averse will be able to stay away from the internet if they want to!

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By Trevor Scott
30th Sep 2009 20:43

Plain stupid

They should have just offered an incentive to file online.

 I know people who are actually terrified of computers and specifically organise their life to avoid using them. The idea of forcing people to learn to use computers, use software and get on the internet is plain stupid. The alternative, paying someone to submit the return and probably prepare it, is not affordable or practical for many people....especially those who have to prepare their return near the month end because they are always waiting for invoices or bank statements etc.

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By az
02nd Oct 2009 09:48

VAT Online

I think an incentive should definately have been put forward. Its like we are being forced to complete online. I am not saying it is not the way forward, in reality everything is becoming or has become so electronic now that it is inevitable but in light of how much VAT and Tax clients pay anyway HMRC could have at least offered a small incentive to keep clients happy!

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Rebecca Benneyworth profile image
By Rebecca Benneyworth
04th Oct 2009 11:13

Incentive

The incentive was a non financial incentive. You have an extra 7 days to file your return, and if you also register to pay by direct debit you have a further 3 working days before payment is collected. I normally see my VAT payments direct debited on 12th of the following month, so this is a bit of a help.

I think payment of a financial award for filing online is really not likely now, as the incentive payments made for PAYE turned out to be very expensive indeed and the money has to come out of general tax revenue. Times are hard and this is a luxury that cannot be afforded - schools and the NHS would be prioritised by every political party.

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By User deleted
05th Oct 2009 12:31

Unhappy bunny

I have now spend three days in total faffing around between the hmrc.gov site and the Government Gateway. I was already registered as an agent for VAT. I then registered myself for VAT online filing, then tried registering a new client for VAT.

When it comes to activation and linking me to my clients I have now discovered that I appear to have different IDs and passwords for each website, and the wretched Gateway now refuses to recognise that I registered on the hmrc site. It is then asking me to register again.

I strongly advise everyone to steer clear of this now, until there is one site it is going to be chaos. I appear to have at least six IDs!

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By User deleted
08th Oct 2009 12:33

my tuppence worth

I agree with unhappy bunny, however the anonymous first poster is my money is on them working for the VAT office!

I have just got my clients permission to register him on the gateway as an organisation. I then had to scrabble around to fing my public knowledge ID ( as opposed to my private ID)

I know have to wait for the client to receive his gateway Id and activation pin before I can proceed.

pray tell how this is better than going on my HMRC agent account, bunging in a few details and waiting for a PIN (which in the case of most company clients comes here as registered office anyway).

This is all after you have either found or applied for a duplicate VAT 4 - why can't we just stick in the VAT number, registered office postcode and last VAT due amount - simples! Why they need us to tell them the date of VAT registration, especially if we are already registered as VAT agent via 64-8?

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By User deleted
08th Oct 2009 13:13

Hi Old Greying Accountant

I am the anon first poster and don't work for the VAT office, sorry to disappoint! Have been working for a small accountancy firm in London doing clients VAT returns every day for 6 years so unfortunately (rather geekily) know the gov gateway/HMRC eVAT very well...

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By User deleted
09th Oct 2009 08:39

Thats well and good...

...but the client still has to apply for gateway registration and await an activation code, which is no different to waiting for PIN for SA, CT or PAYE! I think I am correct in thinking that the client is supposed to do that themselves, not us pretending to be them? It also means we have to give them our public gateway ID, so I still contend the CT/SA/PAYE agent authorisation route is quicker and simpler than the VAT one. And as an expert in the field could you confirm whether an agent would still have to submit a paper 64-8 for the VAT office to talk to them and that the above rigmarole just relate to filing online for them?

Also, VAT office perversely correspond with trading address not Registered Office, which seems to make a mockery of company law!!

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By User deleted
09th Oct 2009 09:38

Hi am still the same anon

I don't quite understand the current fuss (if there is any, maybe I misunderstand) about the client having to wait for the PIN for eVAT - the PIN issued at the moment is for a secondary service that doesn't affect the filing of the eVAT returns even if the client never activates it. Yes technically the client should do the sign up and agent activation themselves, but if they are happy for us to do this on their behalf I don't think its a big problem as then we tell them to change their password. I much prefer taking 10 mins to sign a client up with a gov gateway account, linking them to our agent account and filing the VAT return instantly, rather than waiting at least 7 days for an (e.g. PAYE) authorisation code to be issued through the post to the client and then having to chase them for it.

Yes I think you are correct that if you want to get any useful information out of the national helpline about your client's VAT account at the moment then you do need the paper 64-8 as well. Although if you ring one of the local offices direct e.g. Grimsby flat rate dept, they seem much less bothered about security a lot of the time. However, what I understand from Rebecca's posts is that HMRC are going to bring in the same agent authorisation for VAT as it currently is for PAYE and CT so we wouldn't need both the paper 64-8 and signing up to file online as they would be done simultaneously with just one PIN sent to the client. Is this correct?

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By User deleted
09th Oct 2009 09:56

Still don't see

I set up my client on the gateway yesterday (after the "where the hell did we put the public agent gateway id" frantic search), but it wont let me (as my client) authorise me for online VAT until I have gateway ID and activation code, two separate letters to be posted and awaited, rather than just one as per CT et al.

Am I doing it wrong as I can't see any time saving as you can't seem to be able to do anything until the two doocuments are received? I admit once the gateway is set up you can add other services easily, but I have found no other reason for my clients being on the gateway other than to allow me to do VAT online!

In answer to your query, I do not know but I hope so as the 10 days wait is no problem, in most cases it will be done at the point you take on the client, or register the client for VAT in the first instance so a few days wait for a code is not really a problem.

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By User deleted
09th Oct 2009 10:22

Hi am still the same anon
Hi OGA, when you log in to the gov gateway as your client, do you see:

Welcome [insert client name]
You are logged in as an Organisation

Your Services
Enrolled services
You are currently enrolled for the following services. Select link to go to the service.

New VAT Returns - (lots of letters/reference)

On the left hand column, it should say:

Your account
Your services
Manage Services
Change your details
Manage Log-ins

Click on "Manage Services" - It should give you a page with a box -

Service and Identifier Status Action
New VAT Returns Active Unenrol
VATRegNo : x*x*x*x*x Appoint Agent

Clicking on the "Appoint Agent" link takes you to a page to enter your agent ID "company name - 12 digit ID", where the 12 digit ID (public) is slightly different to your agent ID you use to log in (private).

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By User deleted
09th Oct 2009 10:26

Hi am still the same anon

Sorry meant to add - you should have the client's ID from the sign up process - its given on screen and suggests printing out - as they then send a card in the post to confirm it, and the password to log in is the one you created in the sign up process so unless you didn't make a note of the ID then signing in should be no problem.

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By User deleted
09th Oct 2009 12:41

Still not getting it

The ID that comes up seems to be just an example, you don't get the real one until they send you inthe post an activation code, then you can download your client ID, but only after you haved received the activation code by post.

I still see that either method involves a code being posted so where is the time saved, or am I still missing something (or did I miss something when I did the enrolment)?

I ended up with a page that said you have sucessfully registered, the Government Gateway has generated your user ID. It then shows a picture of an ID card and underneath it says you will be sent a card SIMILAR to the one above WHEN YOU COMPLETE ENROLMENT - which is presumably after receiving, IN THE POST, an activation code. At which point I assume you can then download a printable copy of the user ID?

I am not being sarcastic or facetious, I just want to understand how the effing thing works - it is not a well written process and I may have mis-read or mis-interpreted the instructions and it is really starting to get on my nerves now.

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By User deleted
09th Oct 2009 14:31

Same anon - OGA maybe this will help

Hi again, If you used the HMRC site to sign up i.e. here: https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/registration/organisation?httpmethod=post, and ticked just the "VAT" box (not "VAT registration"), then the user ID it shows you in step 4 is the user ID which is being posted to you. e.g.

Step 4 - Note User ID

Registration for Organisation

Your Online Government Account has been created.

Your User ID is: xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

You must make a note of this User ID as you will need it every time you log in to our Online Services along with your password.If you wish to print this information for your records, please use the print facility on your browser.If your enrolment is successful, within the next seven days you should receive a letter from the Government Gateway containing your User ID on a printed card.

The PIN which is being posted to you sounds like the PIN to activate the secondary service. When you sign up by ticking the "VAT" box as described above, it signs you up to two services simultaneously. 1) Submit VAT returns and 2) Update registration details. The PIN sent out is for service no.2. You can submit VAT returns straight away without needing the PIN. If you sign up to eVAT through the gov gateway instead, you would have to repeat the registration steps of entering the info below twice in order to sign up to both services, whereas if you sign up through HMRC you can just do it once and get both services at the same time. The same applies about the PIN in that they would only issue the PIN for serivce no.2 as you don't need a PIN for service no.1

VAT Registration Number Principal Place Of Business postcodeDate of Registration Month of last VAT Return period end The Box 5 figure on your last VAT return.

 This is my current understanding of how it works... unless they have completely changed it all in the past week or so (since the last time I signed up a new client) so I'm pretty sure you don't need the PINs.

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