SEISS 5 grant applications have opened
Self-employed taxpayers can now apply for the fifth SEISS grant, but they may need to provide two different turnover figures from their business as part of their application.
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You state that "Where turnover has not fallen at all no SEISS grant is payable".
The HMRC guidance was previously: "If your turnover increased, you may still qualify for the 30% grant. You’ll still need to reasonably believe that, due to reduced demand or inability to trade between 1 May and 30 September 2021, you will suffer a significant reduction in trading profits."
This appears to have been removed from guidance but I wonder which interpretation is right?
You state that "Where turnover has not fallen at all no SEISS grant is payable".
The HMRC guidance was previously: "If your turnover increased, you may still qualify for the 30% grant. You’ll still need to reasonably believe that, due to reduced demand or inability to trade between 1 May and 30 September 2021, you will suffer a significant reduction in trading profits."
This appears to have been removed from guidance but I wonder which interpretation is right?
I was in touch with someone yesterday whose turnover has increased, but he was told during the online claim process that he would be getting 30%. So it looks as if the original guidance still stands.
I also had this confirmed by two HMRC agents, but of course, we know how many pinches of salt need to be taken with information from that source ...
It’s just free for all and most will claim even though their business has not been impacted by the pandemic. I don’t think apart a few months last year my clients especially in construction has not been impacted
It is a very different picture in: creative & cultural industries, leisure, hospitality and retail, to name but some.
I really don't understand why Turnover has anything to do with the Grants given.
Turnover alone does not indicate is a business is affected adversely by the Pandemic. Surely HMRC should be informed how wrong this procedure is. The business might do better or worse based on rates holiday , loan deferment , rent holidays , staff redundancy , furlough , SEISS grants etc etc.
Does anyone understand ANYTHING HMRC do? Just another convoluted exercise to keep them all employed.
HMRC have to keep coming up with with changes to the rules and schemes in order to confuse politicians and justify their bonuses, pay rises and promotions etc.
HMRC have to keep coming up with with changes to the rules and schemes in order to confuse politicians and justify their bonuses, pay rises and promotions etc.
SEISS5 is for significant reductions in profit May 2021 to September 2021, yet HMRC want to compare April 2020-April2021 turnover with a reference period. A business may not have been affected to April 2021, but significantly affected May 2021 onwards (eg the sole trader caught long covid). But they'll get a low level of grant because of the turnover test. There's no sense to the turnover test.
The other problem is getting hold of the turnover figure. That's easy enough if the client has reliable records but because all claimants will be small unincorporated businesses they have incomplete (sometimes non-existent) records and we compile the turnover when putting the accounts together. It's going to take us to January 2022 to do this for everyone, but those figures are needed now for SEISS5.
And finally, most clients for whom we've already prepared a 2021 Tax Return are businesses with early year ends eg 30 September 2020. But those turnover figures are no good, it has to be April 2020-April 2021.
All in all, that's a huge amount of extra work just because some jobsworth decided 'let's have a turnover test even though it's got nothing to do with the SEISS5 period'. Doesn't HMRC know how much work this can involve for small businesses?
In response to your last point, of course they do!! They don't want people to claim it so have made it awkward.
Another car crash waiting to happen.
A number of my below-average intelligence clients have already called me for help due to their inability to understand the difference between turnover and profit......
I was planning to retire before MTD for IT comes in, I might bring it forward........
Turnover is vanity. And is there a more vain organisation than HMRC? Can’t see any other reason for a turnover test.