Save content
Have you found this content useful? Use the button above to save it to your profile.
AIA

ELS being dumped - act now

by
7th Oct 2005
Save content
Have you found this content useful? Use the button above to save it to your profile.

Dennis Howlett discusses innovation and change among professional accountants in an extract from his AccMan Pro blog.

The discussion started around the impact of ditching ELS in 2006 in favour of a new system that is, as yet, unproven. The institute proposes setting up a watchdog. That's such a bad idea, a waste of resources and doesn't address grass roots issues.

BASDA has got involved with the conversation, saying they're getting nowhere with HMRC in the so-called consultation process, despite having serious misgivings that have been communicated to Lord Carter's team.

I've offered an alternative which is to set up a site (for free) that spans publishing lines. It would include communities from AccountingWEB, Real Finance, Accountancy Age and Accountancy (if they'd come along). The idea is to strip away publishing politics in an effort to get professionals to raise their voice and get government to listen. It's a bit like a lorry drivers' protest but over the Internet and then out to other media.

This is serious stuff. Wendy Haylock, BASDAs communications director says: "You set it up and we will be happy to contribute. We are ready to try anything that helps...I hope some of the users who have struggled to use the online services will give you their views, too. We need the support of everyone who is likely to be affected. Somehow we have got to make them listen to us."

I have a few tricks up my sleeve about getting this message out to the nationals and broadcast media as well but I can't say much about those at the moment.

Would this fly? Would you raise your voice on this? I hope so. Let me know, please leave comments or email me. We want this to succeed.

Tags:

Replies (16)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By GRAYSHAN
11th Oct 2005 20:38

ELS
We have used ELS since its inception and are very happy with the system. The Americans have a saying 'If it aint broke don't fix it'.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By brianjleach
11th Oct 2005 10:52

I can't compare
As I have never used ELS I suppose I am not really qualified to give my views.

However I find the setting up and submitting of Returns by FBI extremely straightforward (using PTP)

I did consider using ELS in the past but was deterred by the apparently complex procedures required.

As for submitting paper versions of the Returns as a protest I would not even consider it. My experience of the inaccuracy of the 2004 captures means that in my view FBI is essential to ensure correct computations and contain clients costs.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By MJN53
11th Oct 2005 12:57

ELS
Despite it's faults and most agents are abundantly aware of these, ELS is still important to us as it doesnt rely on signed 64-8's. Until HMRC are in a position to confirm they can process 64-8's within an acceptable timescale, ELS remains a worthwhile alternative and should be retained.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Helen Crowley
07th Oct 2005 16:47

Fellow ELS User but converting!
I too had concerns re the withdrawl of ELS but this is not something that hasn't been talked about for years so we have had plenty of time to evaluate and try FBI. The deadline for it's withdrawl has already been extended several times.
We too watched from the sidelines last year and were very smug that we'd stuck with ELS. From talking to others that use the same software as we do and had made the switch last year there was no problem at the end of January last year when using it. Perhaps the software some practices are using (or not using) is inadequate.
Come on guys and gals FBI for Self Assessment has come on leaps and bounds and by the time ELS is withdrawn the additional improvements should be in place. We're currently running both ELS and FBI side by side and will be switching to FBI completely very soon. There are very few instances where we feel it absolutely necessary to submit attachments and our enquiry rate is very low. How many of those posting negative comments have actually tried it?
By the way I've heard that when CAP Gemini took over from EDS for providing IT services to the Revenue part of the contract/agreement was that ELS would not be supported beyond April 2006. The infrastructure is outdated and expensive to maintain - how do you get round that one?

Thanks (0)
Dennis Howlett
By dahowlett
07th Oct 2005 19:04

Encouraged
Thanks to everyone so far. This is a great debate already - most saying ELS being ditched sucks, others reminding me there are always two sides to a story. Good things always come out of reasoned debate. There should be more to say about how this idea is proceeding by the middle of next week.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By User deleted
07th Oct 2005 19:24

ELS please
i had used ELS almost since it started and never had any problems
now i have moved firms and find FBI far more problematic
a) the agent authority has to be on your agent list so that means waiting for CAA team to log which takes a couple of weeks at least and partnerships seem to be ignored- 31st Jan deadline looming!!
b) if the Tax reference etc is not exactly the same as on the TR Notice issued by IR the TR bounces - now i know not so much of a problem but try getting clients to retain their Notice
c) if one of a multiple TR FBI submission bounces the the whole lot does likewise - i now file individually to ensure acceptance

bring back ELS please

Thanks (0)
avatar
By carnmores
07th Oct 2005 16:01

New luddites
we had all these discussions re ELS and FBI in detail last year as far asi am cocerned the ELS ers are the new luddites.

blue touch paper lit... now withdrawing

on a much more important note keep at it Dennis

Thanks (0)
avatar
By AnonymousUser
07th Oct 2005 15:45

ELS works - why kill it
Good to see others find ELS does what it says on the tin.
After 4 years of use we've had virtually no problems - and we've always found the HMRC staff on the helpdesk human and helpful.
We'll sadly be going back to more paper - costly for us and a pain for HMRC.
As far as we're concerned, until there are PDF attachments on FBI and we can send returns down the line on 31 January without a problem ELS is the best, FBI a poor cousin.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Liam2002
07th Oct 2005 14:54

Good Blog
Whatever about ELS which I have no professional interest in at present, I think Dennis's blog pages are a revelation. Extremely well written, informative, interesting and often entertaining. I have added to my favourites list.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By rolandahyams
07th Oct 2005 14:22

ELS should stay
We have been using ELS since the second year and it has enabled us to be far more efficient in the filing of tax returns. We had no panics on 31st January with the e-filing unable to cope with the rush. We know we will have to change but had made a decission to wait until e-filing has no blips. Now it looks as if we will not have that option. Why is ELS being cancelled after 2004-2005. The revenue cannot really believe E-filing is a more reliable service at the moment.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By peter465
07th Oct 2005 13:07

Prove the reliability of E-filing first please.
As a 95% ELS filing practice we have experience of filing successfully by this means. We do not believe the HMRC has yet proved that e-filing is robust enough to take its place. Our view would be that if this season actually goes well without extended deadlines and other problems then we wil switch but in the meantime we will support demands for ELS to be maintained until we have something reliable to take its place.

Thanks (0)
By jstuckey
07th Oct 2005 12:09

ELS Works!!!
At the risk of repeating others, ELS works. You can file multiple returns at the same time and returns for previous years as well. You do not have to be pre registered as an agent to file a return, so I can file a return for a new client within 30 minutes of him arriving, provided he passes all of my internal checks to ensure he is who he says he is.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By kbrown8557.hwca.com
07th Oct 2005 11:58

ELS works!
The practice where I work, a relatively small office of a national firm uses ELS for about 500 returns a year - it works well, which is more than can be said for our experience with filing by internet, notably the P.35 debacle last April/May, which is still causing problems, as HMRC appear to have been so overwhelmed that they still haven't processed a good proportion of the returns made.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By AnonymousUser
07th Oct 2005 11:45

If it works, don't fix it.
I have been using ELS almost since its introduction, and it works perfectly every time. Why can't HMRC continue to support it until the on-line filing system is proven to work to the our satisfaction. I cannot believe that ELS cost so much to run that it is uneconomic. Perhaps all users of ELS should refuse to use on-line filing, instead revert back to hard copy filing. HMRC might then sit up and listen.

Fred Budd

Thanks (0)
avatar
By AnonymousUser
07th Oct 2005 11:32

Less complexity always good
Yes, Dennis, a forum that is quick and clean and shows the opinions of the folk who are at the bleeding edge is a good idea.

Another dratted quango is a daft idea. Who needs all this filtering and complexity - just provide a forum and ask! The real boys have enough jobs...

Thanks (0)
avatar
By 525252
07th Oct 2005 15:26

ELS
I also have used Els since the second year and i cant really find fault with it.
The problem i have is that PTP who supply our software are i believe themselves no longer supporting ELS after 04/05 and are promoting FBI instead.

Thanks (0)